Politics vs. creative freedom

[StaceyPowers]

The topic of “politics vs. creative freedom” comes up often enough in other threads that I thought I’d make a thread for it.

My feeling is that it is something of a false dichotomy, as expressing a political view in a game can be a form of creative freedom. Not expressing a political view in a game is also a form of creative freedom. I can respect either decision.

[The Blackangel]

Fuck it all. There is always going to be some form of "politics" in every game. It doesn't matter what it is. It may show politics from 1000 years ago, or it may be the Queen vs the US President.

They're all political in some way.

[m76]

I think when they use an IP as a platform to express their real world political opinions they do a disservice. It's not creative freedom, since it lacks all creativity.

They aren't doing it to make a better or more authentic product, they do it, put a message out there. It's like taking a Michelangelo painting and drawing a  crude dick on it to show how much you hate the people who traditionally enjoyed similar paintings.

Of course there is politics in everything, but using a political theme that is well built up in the game world is not the same as clumsily injecting what was trending on twitter that day.

Edited April 22, 2021 by m76

[killamch89]

When using a video game to push a real world political agenda like Fortnite did, it has no place because 1) most of the people who play these games typically use them to get away from stuff like this 2) Videogames are supposed to be fun and there's nothing fun about a political agenda-driven that's imposing its beliefs on its players. 3) It isn't part of the story or theme of the game and when you just suddenly start pushing it, it becomes bothersome. This is the mistake that Battlefield 5 made and it flopped horrendously. Videogames were based on creativity at least back in the days but most modern videogames lack exactly that - Having said that, I do support "creative" freedom over politics.

[Crazycrab]

The whole argument that expressing a political opinion (or any opinion really) in a media platform counter creative is complete and utter nonsense.  Free speech is a right but also a responsibility so can say whatever you want but it doesn't mean their can't be consequences.

 

If your creating a video game, movie, book, TV series or whatever the case may and your told you can't do this or talk about that just a violation of free speech.  If someone doesn't like your work or comments and chooses to criticize them, that's also free speech.  I don't agree with the views expressed by lot's of people but do I argue they should making the points I don't agree with?  Absolutely not!

 

Let's face the truth here, if your making the argument that political opinions should be left out of games it's a self contradiction because what your really saying is you don't want any politics in games other than your own.  You obviously wouldn't say anything when the views being expressed fall in the with your own, it's only when it works against it.

 

There are some exceptions where someone is just being offensive and intentionality trying to antagonize people rather attempting any sort of social or political commentary.

 

[The Blackangel]

Sometimes people make games for the purpose of being as offensive as they can. I don’t remember the exact title but the game made off the Columbine shooting is the perfect example of that. Other times people make a game to specifically involve political issues in the gameplay, and it’s a masterpiece of a game. But the sequel to the game, made with the same model, pisses off at least half the community. If a game is specifically made with politics in it, that’s fine as long as it’s known ahead of time by the consumers. But if they try to be crafty about it and sneak political shit into it, that’s when a problem starts.

[m76]

8 hours ago, Crazycrab said:

The whole argument that expressing a political opinion (or any opinion really) in a media platform counter creative is complete and utter nonsense.  Free speech is a right but also a responsibility so can say whatever you want but it doesn't mean their can't be consequences.

 

If your creating a video game, movie, book, TV series or whatever the case may and your told you can't do this or talk about that just a violation of free speech.  If someone doesn't like your work or comments and chooses to criticize them, that's also free speech.  I don't agree with the views expressed by lot's of people but do I argue they should making the points I don't agree with?  Absolutely not!

Of course I'm not saying that they should not be allowed to do it. They can do whatever they wish, just don't paint me as the bad guy if I say I'm not buying that product then.

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Let's face the truth here, if your making the argument that political opinions should be left out of games it's a self contradiction because what your really saying is you don't want any politics in games other than your own.  You obviously wouldn't say anything when the views being expressed fall in the with your own, it's only when it works against it.

The political agendas in games are almost always related to daily US politics. Since I'm not from the united states I have no stake in it. I don't want neo-liberal, nor alt-right agendas pushed in my entertainment. It's not my fault that 99.9% of the time the agenda falls on the regressive liberal side. If they were pushing conservative agendas I'd be equally upset about it.  There should be no your politics or my politics in games to begin with. The only politics in games should be the politics of the fictional universe it is set in. If they can fit real world political themes into the fictional universe seamlessly that's all and good. But putting up BLM banners in the game's menu is not. If the developers were putting up pro life or pro-religion banners that would bother me equally.

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There are some exceptions where someone is just being offensive and intentionality trying to antagonize people rather attempting any sort of social or political commentary.

But that's exactly the problem. Attempting social or political commentary that does not fit within the game's theme is what antagonizes people. Including me.

They know most gamers are not interested in that agenda, yet they push it anyway. They also disregard that a game is a worldwide platform, so the majority of their audience has absolutely no interest in it.

Edited April 23, 2021 by m76

[Reality vs Adventure]

Some things aren’t meant to be political but made political by people who threaten human rights. That guise is used to abuse creative freedom or freedom of speech. Sad thing is, if you try to stop the bad from filtering in games, or any media/entertainment, then you risk encroaching those rights.

But if it’s something that has nothing to do with threatening the right to life and prosperity, then be as creative as you want.

7 hours ago, m76 said:

They know most gamers are not interested in that agenda, yet they push it anyway. They also disregard that a game is a worldwide platform, so the majority of their audience has absolutely no interest in it

That is very true

7 hours ago, m76 said:

The only politics in games should be the politics of the fictional universe it is set in. If they can fit real world political themes into the fictional universe seamlessly that's all and good. But putting up BLM banners in the game's menu is not. If the developers were putting up pro life or pro-religion banners that would bother me equally.

I agree, but I'm gonna nitpick a little bit because BLM is not political. It is a human rights issue made political by people who oppose them. I know you didn't mention anything except it shouldn't be a banner in a menu. What about Covid? What if that health issue was a banner in a game menu. Would it be accepted then? Because that public health issue has been made political by the crazies also. Should that health awareness be placed in a menu? Should a breast cancer awareness ribbon be put in a menu? 

13 hours ago, The Blackangel said:

But if they try to be crafty about it and sneak political shit into it, that’s when a problem starts.

Couldn't agree more. I read a lot and whenever I am interested in a book I always have to read reviews to find out if the author turns politically biased of the opposing field halfway through. That would piss me off. And it is pretty common in books, way more than video games.   

 

 

[killamch89]

11 hours ago, m76 said:

Of course I'm not saying that they should not be allowed to do it. They can do whatever they wish, just don't paint me as the bad guy if I say I'm not buying that product then.

The political agendas in games are almost always related to daily US politics. Since I'm not from the united states I have no stake in it. I don't want neo-liberal, nor alt-right agendas pushed in my entertainment. It's not my fault that 99.9% of the time the agenda falls on the regressive liberal side. If they were pushing conservative agendas I'd be equally upset about it.  There should be no your politics or my politics in games to begin with. The only politics in games should be the politics of the fictional universe it is set in. If they can fit real world political themes into the fictional universe seamlessly that's all and good. But putting up BLM banners in the game's menu is not. If the developers were putting up pro life or pro-religion banners that would bother me equally.

But that's exactly the problem. Attempting social or political commentary that does not fit within the game's theme is what antagonizes people. Including me.

They know most gamers are not interested in that agenda, yet they push it anyway. They also disregard that a game is a worldwide platform, so the majority of their audience has absolutely no interest in it.

I agree with most of what you said - most of the times, it's American political agendas being pushed in videogames and I as a non-American have no interest in their politics. It has nothing to do with the game and yet they try to push these agendas that are so flipping extreme. Videogames are meant to unite people, not to be used a propaganda tool to influence other's beliefs. We already have the news and other mediums being used for that - videogames is a safe haven for all to put their real-life issues aside and enjoy.

[m76]

4 hours ago, Reality vs Adventure said:

I agree, but I'm gonna nitpick a little bit because BLM is not political. It is a human rights issue made political by people who oppose them. I know you didn't mention anything except it shouldn't be a banner in a menu.

BLM pretends to fight for human rights, but the organization itself is corrupt and causes more harm than good. There are certainly human rights issues worth tackling, but video games are the least suitable place for that.

Quote

What about Covid? What if that health issue was a banner in a game menu. Would it be accepted then? Because that public health issue has been made political by the crazies also. Should that health awareness be placed in a menu? Should a breast cancer awareness ribbon be put in a menu? 

Videogames serve the purpose of escapism, it cannot serve that purpose if it keeps shoving real world issues in my face.

All the crazy misconceptions surrounding covid and masks and social distancing frustrates me greatly, but trying to reach those who refuse to get informed through games would only serve to alienate them further.  So even if I agree with the message I don't support this method of dissemination.

 

[Reality vs Adventure]

31 minutes ago, m76 said:

Videogames serve the purpose of escapism, it cannot serve that purpose if it keeps shoving real world issues in my face.

All the crazy misconceptions surrounding covid and masks and social distancing frustrates me greatly, but trying to reach those who refuse to get informed through games would only serve to alienate them further.  So even if I agree with the message I don't support this method of dissemination.

I agree it would be strange to see those things in video games. 

34 minutes ago, m76 said:

BLM pretends to fight for human rights, but the organization itself is corrupt and causes more harm than good.

Every time there is a movement for human rights, they are always undermined.  

[killamch89]

10 minutes ago, Reality vs Adventure said:

Every time there is a movement for human rights, they are always undermined.  

Actually, BLM leader just bought a mansion in a "white neighborhood" while not donating a single dollar back to black communities or neighborhood. I'm a black person and let me inform that you shouldn't be fooled by some claiming to be "for the people". This was a movement started by a Jewish person Soros and their slogan was to break up the nuclear black family. These people don't care about us black people - they use it get money and then spend it on properties while still undermining those people.

[Reality vs Adventure]

2 minutes ago, killamch89 said:

Actually, BLM leader just bought a mansion in a "white neighborhood" while not donating a single dollar back to black communities or neighborhood. I'm a black person and let me inform that you shouldn't be fooled by some claiming to be "for the people". This was a movement started by a Jewish person Soros and their slogan was to break up the nuclear black family. These people don't care about us black people - they use it get money and then spend it on properties while still undermining those people.

I hope that's not the case. Nothing like something as important as this to get undermined by their own along with the rest who will just feed off of it and continue justifying their hate. We have legal systems for a reason so if a law was broken, then they need to be punished. But that sounds like it becomes even more frustrating for those who are protesting for their livelihood. It's a shame, but we have the intelligible ability to know that the greater picture is more important.

[killamch89]

9 minutes ago, Reality vs Adventure said:

I hope that's not the case. Nothing like something as important as this to get undermined by their own along with the rest who will just feed off of it and continue justifying their hate. We have legal systems for a reason so if a law was broken, then they need to be punished. But that sounds like it becomes even more frustrating for those who are protesting for their livelihood. It's a shame, but we have the intelligible ability to know that the greater picture is more important.

here's one of the reports:

https://wbckfm.com/blm-founder-patrisse-cullors-4-million-home/

This when they removed the slogan of breaking up the nuclear family structure

https://nypost.com/2020/09/24/blm-removes-website-language-blasting-nuclear-family-structure/

The co-founders are trained Marxists - they said so themselves. This is why I don't just follow any agenda pushed - I actually take the time to do my research because agendas like this are always being pushed which is meant to exploit black people instead of actually helping them.

[Reality vs Adventure]

2 hours ago, killamch89 said:

here's one of the reports:

https://wbckfm.com/blm-founder-patrisse-cullors-4-million-home/

This when they removed the slogan of breaking up the nuclear family structure

https://nypost.com/2020/09/24/blm-removes-website-language-blasting-nuclear-family-structure/

The co-founders are trained Marxists - they said so themselves. This is why I don't just follow any agenda pushed - I actually take the time to do my research because agendas like this are always being pushed which is meant to exploit black people instead of actually helping them.

To break up a nuclear family is a wrong way to say it, just like defund the police was. The right way to explain that is police reform, and to reform a capitalistic society where only a married couple can afford to live. 

At this point black Americans don't really have a choice. This country is diseased with racism and this IS THE BREAKING POINT. Bills are being passed by republicans to oppress their votes, to restrict the right to protest and legalize murdering them with vehicles, and blatant non stop hate. Even if the co-founders are marxist, the majority simply want justice in a system that repeatedly oppresses them.