"Hold Ubisoft Accountable" Trends as it's Reveled Ubisoft Still has Not Fixed Abusive Culture.

[Shagger]

As some of you may be aware, Unisoft have found themselves in hot water over this past year with allegations of abuse (including sexual harassment) and mistreatment from management to lower staff within the company. This video from Jim Sterling has the jist of the original story;

 

 

Even though it appears Ubisoft have taken appropriate steps to tackle the problem, a new article from Gamesindustry.biz cited internal sources at Ubisoft claiming that not nearly enough has been done. This has lead to "Hold Ubisoft Accountable" becoming a trend and calls from the public for more to be done. More on this specifically from YongYea.

 

 

When companies are guilty of this sort of thing, does it make thier products any worse? In a word, no, but to me playing and Ubisoft game now is like playing a game that has Chlamydia. There's no symptoms, but just knowing it's there is enough to spoil things. That, however, is a good thing. People shouldn't ignore this stuff and feel comfortable enjoying products from companies with this kind of reputation.

 

That's my take on it, anyway.

 

EDIT: It's been 5 hours since I posted this and I've only NOW realised I post this to the wrong section. My bad. Moving to Gaming News.

Edited May 27, 2021 by Shagger

[m76]

If accusations were proof everybody would be in jail for something. It still seems to me that this is blown way out of proportion by snowflakes whose definition of harassment and abuse is way detached from actually harmful conduct.

And the articles are all vague on detail none explaining the actual conduct that was considered abuse. Even the article that is linked by another as "containing detailed accounts" has none in reality.

The only concrete description of the alleged "abuse" I found was this supposed "kitchen meetings". I mean would it be better if they called you into the office for slacking off work? This is just ridiculous. Calling you out for never showing up for overtime work is not abuse. In fact you should have a hard look at yourself, because when you never show up for OT, you leave your co-workers to pick up your slack.

Edited May 26, 2021 by m76

[Shagger]

23 minutes ago, m76 said:

If accusations were proof everybody would be in jail for something. It still seems to me that this is blown way out of proportion by snowflakes whose definition of harassment and abuse is way detached from actually harmful conduct.

And the articles are all vague on detail none explaining the actual conduct that was considered abuse. Even the article that is linked by another as "containing detailed accounts" has none in reality.

The only concrete description of the alleged "abuse" I found was this supposed "kitchen meetings". I mean would it be better if they called you into the office for slacking off work? This is just ridiculous. Calling you out for never showing up for overtime work is not abuse. In fact you should have a hard look at yourself, because when you never show up for OT, you leave your co-workers to pick up your slack.

 

If the misconduct wasn't real, they why has it been verified by so many people from within the company? Why have so many Ubisoft executives either resigned, been sacked or otherwise penalised over this issue? Why have Ubisoft themselves publicly apologized for it? There's literally proof of it to justify the heat Ubisoft is getting for this, what do you have to the contrary?

[Empire]

The sad thing about the whole 'there are good people at Ubisoft too!' angle is that good people aren't celebrated or properly rewarded ANYWAY. They may receive the odd (small) performance bonus, or a free copy of the game, but they're still overworked and underpaid. Those good people who DESERVE to be praised for their amazing hard work (looking at you, Assassin's Creed historical researchers and level designers) are overshadowed by VP bonuses and shitty managers taking credit for their work.

[Shagger]

On the subject of Ubisoft, the multiplayer ship battle simulator game Skull and Bones first announced in 2017 has had its troubled development started again from scratch. It's unclear if this has anything to do with Ubisoft's "other" troubles or not. More on that here.

[m76]

1 hour ago, Shagger said:

 

If the misconduct wasn't real, they why has it been verified by so many people from within the company? Why have so many Ubisoft executives either resigned, been sacked or otherwise penalised over this issue? Why have Ubisoft themselves publicly apologized for it? There's literally proof of it to justify the heat Ubisoft is getting for this, what do you have to the contrary?

You serious? Have you not heard of cancel culture? If someone takes offence at what one prominent person says or does they are as good as dead, and companies instead of facing the mob quietly try to remove them. This is insanity, mob justice, anarchy.

I'm merely saying that I'll reserve judgement until I see facts. If abuse was so common occurence how come there is no detialed description of what the actual abuse entails to? If you can point me to a detailed accounting of the misconduct, I'll judge them based on that. But I'm not going to condemn anyone based on blind accusations of nondescript workplace toxicity.

Edited May 26, 2021 by m76

[Shagger]

1 hour ago, m76 said:

You serious? Have you not heard of cancel culture? If someone takes offence at what one prominent person says or does they are as good as dead, and companies instead of facing the mob quietly try to remove them. This is insanity, mob justice, anarchy.

I'm merely saying that I'll reserve judgement until I see facts. If abuse was so common occurence how come there is no detialed description of what the actual abuse entails to? If you can point me to a detailed accounting of the misconduct, I'll judge them based on that. But I'm not going to condemn anyone based on blind accusations of nondescript workplace toxicity.

 

Reserve judgement until you see the facts my ass.

 

You replied to the topic spewing your anti-woke nonsense a mere ten minutes after started the topic. You can't have watched the videos, read any detailed articles or accounts nor have done anything even remotely close to adaquate research before saying (and I am paraphrasing) "There wasn't abuse. This is just a bunch of snowflakes complaining about getting work to do.". Clearly the last thing you're interested in is looking at the evidence, and I know exactly why. It's because, deep down, you don't want to believe what you already know your going to find.

 

So how about you actually look into this yourself. No links from me because you'll just fob anything I post off as part of the "cancel culture" conspiracy that you've already decided this is. Let's see how well your own theory holds up. Let's put the "reality" you live in where people can't be prejudiced, misogynistic, sexist, abuse their power, harass or mistreat others because any claim that they have is just the whine of a "snowflake" that's had their precious little feelings hurt. Go on, do it. I dare you.

 

The history of abuse and the cover ups of said abuse at Ubisoft is a proven fact, you just don't want to acknowledge it because it doesn't fit you perception of the world.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Shagger

[Empire]

You know no one really cares anyway and none of this will make any differences. Gamers and the Gaming press will continue to give coverage and money to Ubisoft and after a couple of weeks later, there will be a new controversy and all these will be forgotten. Sad but realit

[Shagger]

2 minutes ago, Empire said:

You know no one really cares anyway and none of this will make any differences. Gamers and the Gaming press will continue to give coverage and money to Ubisoft and after a couple of weeks later, there will be a new controversy and all these will be forgotten. Sad but realit

 

I'm a little more optimistic. This has hurt Ubisoft. Not so badly that it puts them under any major threat, but enough to make powers that can hurt them take notice. I don't see the press as being the bid issue either, they love to post dirt on big companies. I do see a problem when gamers just choose to either ignore, deny or not care about these things as they are the one most empowered to hurt Ubisoft whare it really matters, not that I'm talking about anyone in particular.

[m76]

1 hour ago, Shagger said:

 

Reserve judgement until you see the facts my ass.

 

You replied to the topic spewing your anti-woke nonsense a mere ten minutes after started the topic. You can't have watched the videos, read any detailed articles or accounts nor have done anything even remotely close to adaquate research before saying (and I am paraphrasing) "There wasn't abuse. This is just a bunch of snowflakes complaining about getting work to do.". Clearly the last thing you're interested in is looking at the evidence, and I know exactly why. It's because, deep down, you don't want to believe what you already know your going to find.

LOL, you are not my source of news, guess what I've seen this topic covered by both yong and jim many times before, and I've seen the videos you linked before you linked them. Both of them have a history of bias over this topic and both of them get their news from elsewhere, neither of them has actual sources in the industry.

I started from the gamesindustry article you linked, that linked to another article, that linked to a third one claiming to have details of the abuse, but it didn't. At that point I felt I've gone deep enough into the rabbit hole for a whole lot of nothing.

I'm very sorry, but claiming that "there is workplace abuse" is not evidence of anything.  that is not enough reason to fire anyone or hold them accountable.

Quote

 

So how about you actually look into this yourself. No links from me because you'll just fob anything I post off as part of the "cancel culture" conspiracy that you've already decided this is. Let's see how well your own theory holds up. Let's put the "reality" you live in where people can't be prejudiced, misogynistic, sexist, abuse their power, harass or mistreat others because any claim that they have is just the whine of a "snowflake" that's had their precious little feelings hurt. Go on, do it. I dare you.

As I've said, I've seen the videos, read the articles circle jerk referencing each other, but the only description of actual events I came up with it someone getting talked to in the kitchen for not showing up to OT. If someone never showed up for all hands on deck assignments they'd get a tear down at my company as well, it is not unique to the gaming industry, or ubisoft.

Quote

 

The history of abuse and the cover ups of said abuse at Ubisoft is a proven fact, you just don't want to acknowledge it because it doesn't fit you perception of the world.

I can't acknowledge what doesn't seem to exist. And surprise surprise it all leads back to the same pot stirrer: Jason Schreier, who seem to revel in  writing articles about games developers and their so called toxic environments. But every example of the so called toxicity, be it at Naughty Dog, CDPR, or Ubisoft, is common practice in for profit competitive industries. And no, being common practice doesn't make something OK in of itself, but it such common practice that I've experienced them myself at my workplace over the years, and I don't consider any of it abuse or toxic workplace. The fact that someone has the final world on what games get greenlit is not abuse or toxic environment, it's called being the boss.

Sexual misconduct is entirely another case, fuck the responsible parties and they should be fired on the spot and not protected. But again we have to make a distinction between actual misconduct and just hitting on someone at a party. I only consider that misconduct if it does not stop after a clear rejection.

Edited May 26, 2021 by m76

[Reality vs Adventure]

This really is a disappointment. You just never know what goes on behind the products that you like. I fully respect the team and they deserve better leadership than what they have. I’ll take the Chlamydia because I’m not gonna stop playing AC games. But if their leadership isn’t going to make serious changes, that will ultimately affect the team and their product just as stated in the video. I wouldn’t think it’s grounds for a boycott unless they were donating their money to a bad cause. I fully support their team and as employees, they need to support their coworkers and stage a strike or talk about it with reporters or an outside ethics source. Cause it seems their HR and leadership aren’t doing enough even after their past attempt for change because the problems continue. And that in itself is proof enough of a toxic workplace. Only if employees come out in public and talk about these things, then the leadership will get the spotlight and hopefully resign.

We should never just look the other way, and those that are always in a state of denial lets these things persist. And denial is just another name for ‘cancel culture’ conspiracy. All allegations should be investigated. And just as the guilty need accountability, so do falsifiers (Karens).

[Shagger]

2 hours ago, m76 said:

LOL, you are not my source of news, guess what I've seen this topic covered by both yong and jim many times before, and I've seen the videos you linked before you linked them. Both of them have a history of bias over this topic and both of them get their news from elsewhere, neither of them has actual sources in the industry.

I started from the gamesindustry article you linked, that linked to another article, that linked to a third one claiming to have details of the abuse, but it didn't. At that point I felt I've gone deep enough into the rabbit hole for a whole lot of nothing.

I'm very sorry, but claiming that "there is workplace abuse" is not evidence of anything.  that is not enough reason to fire anyone or hold them accountable.

As I've said, I've seen the videos, read the articles circle jerk referencing each other, but the only description of actual events I came up with it someone getting talked to in the kitchen for not showing up to OT. If someone never showed up for all hands on deck assignments they'd get a tear down at my company as well, it is not unique to the gaming industry, or ubisoft.

I can't acknowledge what doesn't seem to exist. And surprise surprise it all leads back to the same pot stirrer: Jason Schreier, who seem to revel in  writing articles about games developers and their so called toxic environments. But every example of the so called toxicity, be it at Naughty Dog, CDPR, or Ubisoft, is common practice in for profit competitive industries. And no, being common practice doesn't make something OK in of itself, but it such common practice that I've experienced them myself at my workplace over the years, and I don't consider any of it abuse or toxic workplace. The fact that someone has the final world on what games get greenlit is not abuse or toxic environment, it's called being the boss.

Sexual misconduct is entirely another case, fuck the responsible parties and they should be fired on the spot and not protected. But again we have to make a distinction between actual misconduct and just hitting on someone at a party. I only consider that misconduct if it does not stop after a clear rejection.

I don't know why I try with you. You live in an alt-right bubble and just refuse to see the truth of the world around you. You haven't posted any evidence to back up what you believe like I challenged you to, you call out my sources with no evidence of their alleged bias and have not have posted any facts or evidence at all. You're not a stupid man, but you are a deluded one.

 

You can have your social/political views and that's fine, but it becomes a problem when it effects how you view facts. You twist the facts about BLM to make them out as looters and terrorists, you completely blanked out Bioshock Infinite's blatant overtones on racism because you don't like them and now Ubisoft being proven to have a history of an abusive work culture is a lie because it's nothing more that people complaining about having to work?

 

Here is the difference between you and me. I'll take some explaining, so I beg your patience.

 

I work at a shipyard where at least 90% of the staff on the floor are men, and not just men, but some of the most crude, bloakish, outspoken, foul mouthed, red blooded, "old school" grunts you could ever meet. Without some seriously thick skin, you simply wouldn't survive there.  It's not like the management are much different either, but we all know the line between "speaking the language" so to speak and being abusive, and it takes going to extremes to be considered abusive in this place, believe me. So I tell you I know the difference between harassment and abuse and jossing around and having a laugh.

 

Obviously I haven't worked for Ubisoft, so I can't say where the lines were and how they were allegedly crossed, but what I do know is that the standard is not set by me, you or anyone specifically. I know that somebody from my work behaving the same way at another job could easily be considered abusive or offensive and it would be their fault, not the fault of the other people working there. So you see, you don't need the exact description of this alleged abuse because you don't set the standard. It's up to the person(s) being targeted what is too far, not the one doing the abuse. If I saw the details, it is possible I would not see the big deal either, but I'm self-aware without being self-centred, so I only need the victim to see it as wrong for me to feel the same.

 

THAT is the difference between you and me. It is quite possible that you are smarter than me, I'm willing to admit that, but I'm not nearly as selfish or arrogant. I can stretch my imagination to understand where other people are coming from with what they say. Something is only wrong if it's wrong for you. Nothing hurts unless it hurts you. Nothing is real unless it's real to you. That's your problem. I know it's a cliché and I'm embarrassed to use it, but you really need to get woke.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Shagger

[killamch89]

Is anyone surprised? The gaming industry itself doesn't even care about unionizing their workforce, workers have to work very excessive hours and tolerate all manners of abuse. That's why I've always maintained that working in the gaming industry would be traumatizing for most people and I stick by that sentiment.

[Reality vs Adventure]

22 minutes ago, killamch89 said:

Is anyone surprised? The gaming industry itself doesn't even care about unionizing their workforce, workers have to work very excessive hours and tolerate all manners of abuse. That's why I've always maintained that working in the gaming industry would be traumatizing for most people and I stick by that sentiment.

Aww good point of not caring about unionizing their workforce. That's the key I think and usually companies that are against unionizing favor poorer work conditions. Walmart and Amazon are two big examples of anti-unionization and abuse of employees. I think it's time gaming companies start talking about this because too much bad shit is going on. 

[killamch89]

4 hours ago, Reality vs Adventure said:

Aww good point of not caring about unionizing their workforce. That's the key I think and usually companies that are against unionizing favor poorer work conditions. Walmart and Amazon are two big examples of anti-unionization and abuse of employees. I think it's time gaming companies start talking about this because too much bad shit is going on. 

The thing is they won't discuss this kind of stuff because it would mean they can no longer abuse their staff and that's a huge part of why they are successful. I say time and time again that I don't want government interference in the gaming industry but with how things are, the government really needs to step in.