Who'd You Rather Face: Ninjas or Pirates?

[killamch89]

Pirates are WAY easier to face because they may have combat experience but aren't well trained or disciplined or as resourceful as ninjas. In addition to that, it's way harder to escape from a Ninja and their tools make them devastating in both long ranged and close quarter combat. Who'd you rather face and why?

[Reality vs Adventure]

If I were outmatched and gonna die, I’d go out by a ninja because they would go for a quick kill as they are assassins and won’t toy around. Pirates will beat you, chain you, and throw you to the sharks. I would have a better chance at killing a pirate, but I won’t get taken alive if I lose. 
 

 

[The Blackangel]

If the only outcome is death, I would go with the ninja as well. Typically I wouldn't even know I had been attacked. It would just be lights out, and I never would have known it was coming. Pirates on the other hand like to toy with their victims until they get bored with them, then throw them overboard. That is the romanticized depiction of pirates. Real pirates of today just steal. If we're talking Somali pirates, they kill and steal.

It's a dangerous thing either way, but at least with the ninja it would be quick.

Edited June 23, 2021 by The Blackangel

[Crazycrab]

 

7 hours ago, killamch89 said:

Pirates are WAY easier to face because they may have combat experience but aren't well trained or disciplined or as resourceful as ninjas. In addition to that, it's way harder to escape from a Ninja and their tools make them devastating in both long ranged and close quarter combat. Who'd you rather face and why?

 

Sorry but you've got completely the wrong idea about pirates.  I'm assuming that you're talking about the 17th century Carribbean pirates.  These people were not the drunk, swashbuckling thugs that most people seem to think.  They were well trained and disciplined Spanish and British sailors that were suddenly left out of work when their governments singed a peace treaty on 1808.  They were tough fucking bastard's, the marines of their day.

 

Another aspect that works against the ninja here is the design of thier weapons is somewhat compromised by the fact they were usually either everyday tools like sickles or otherwise had to be concealed like throwing stars.  A pirate doesn't need to worry about that.  It was common to see people carrying swords and guns in public.

 

So when it comes to pirate vs ninja, the pirate would beat the ninja easily because they were well trained, I'd argue had better melee weapons and had black powder weapons like grenades, cannons and an assortment of early firearms.  I respect ninjas and thier skills, but in this case they are literally be bringing a knife to a gun fight.

Edited June 23, 2021 by Crazycrab

[Reality vs Adventure]

3 hours ago, Crazycrab said:

 

 

Sorry but you've got completely the wrong idea about pirates.  I'm assuming that you're talking about the 17th century Carribbean pirates.  These people were not the drunk, swashbuckling thugs that most people seem to think.  They were well trained and disciplined Spanish and British sailors that were suddenly left out of work when their governments singed a peace treaty on 1808.  They were tough fucking bastard's, the marines of their day.

 

Another aspect that works against the ninja here is the design of thier weapons is somewhat compromised by the fact they were usually either everyday tools like sickles or otherwise had to be concealed like throwing stars.  A pirate doesn't need to worry about that.  It was common to see people carrying swords and guns in public.

 

So when it comes to pirate vs ninja, the pirate would beat the ninja easily because they were well trained, I'd argue had better melee weapons and had black powder weapons like grenades, cannons and an assortment of early firearms.  I respect ninjas and thier skills, but in this case they are literally be bringing a knife to a gun fight.

I think you underestimate the ninja being stealthy. A pirate wouldn't even see a ninja. That was the whole point of their training. Pirates can have machine guns and a ninja a blow dart gun. But the whole point is a ninja becomes one with the surroundings. And if caught they would off themselves. 

[Shagger]

Like @Crazycrab said, the pirates of the Carribbean at the time were not a rabble of mindless thieves, but highly trained and disciplined sailors that were amongst the best military men of thier day. If there were the drunken rabble most fiction depicts them as, they would never have achieved the fame and notoriety that they did.

 

The governments of Britain and Spain sent these elite sailors out there for a war that never took place. When the peace treaty was signed, these sailors were left unemployable, so many of them took to thievery to get buy. Using thier military skills to rob ships and ports to make ends meet and to take jabs at the countries that they felt had betrayed them. They were organised and knew what they were doing. That's partly why thier rulers, especially in the case of the British, hated them so much, but mostly it was because they were more than just thieves, they were traitors as well.

[Crazycrab]

59 minutes ago, Reality vs Adventure said:

I think you underestimate the ninja being stealthy. A pirate wouldn't even see a ninja. That was the whole point of their training. Pirates can have machine guns and a ninja a blow dart gun. But the whole point is a ninja becomes one with the surroundings. And if caught they would off themselves. 

 

I'm sorry to have break it to you but stealth is not as effective as Hollywood and video games would have you believe, or at least not the "lone sneaking" strategy as it's often presented.  In reality stealth strategys weren't executed that way, even by Ninja's.  They worked in teams, operations where planned, they gathered intelligence, they used diversionary tactics, ambush tactics, disguises, anything they could do to take or subert the enemies natural advantage.  Even pirates used these tactics, like I said their not undisciplined louts but professionally trained mercenaries.  So if your telling me a lone Ninja would be able to sneak up on a Pirate, kill him then escape quietly without anybody noticing I'm calling BS. It would have to a very well planned operation because that is simply not reality.

[Reality vs Adventure]

28 minutes ago, Crazycrab said:

 

I'm sorry to have break it to you but stealth is not as effective as Hollywood and video games would have you believe, or at least not the "lone sneaking" strategy as it's often presented.  In reality stealth strategys weren't executed that way, even by Ninja's.  They worked in teams, operations where planned, they gathered intelligence, they used diversionary tactics, ambush tactics, disguises, anything they could do to take or subert the enemies natural advantage.  Even pirates used these tactics, like I said their not undisciplined louts but professionally trained mercenaries.  So if your telling me a lone Ninja would be able to sneak up on a Pirate, kill him then escape quietly without anybody noticing I'm calling BS. It would have to a very well planned operation because that is simply not reality.

Pirates weren't only mercenaries but also made up of ex slaves and all sorts of other people. So yeah, a lifetime trained ninja could kill them along with a mercenary. 

[Crazycrab]

3 hours ago, Reality vs Adventure said:

Pirates weren't only mercenaries but also made up of ex slaves and all sorts of other people. So yeah, a lifetime trained ninja could kill them along with a mercenary. 

 

There's one other small detail that I believe makes a Pirate a more formidable opponent than a Ninja.  In the words of Jack Sparrow "The only rules that really matter are these.  What a man can do, and what a man can't do.", And a Pirate can do this:

 

https://youtube.com/clip/UgyR6tFUU8pIDeeKTfh4AaABCQ

Edited June 23, 2021 by Crazycrab

[Reality vs Adventure]

23 minutes ago, Crazycrab said:

 

There's one other small detail that I believe makes a Pirate a more formidable opponent than a Ninja.  In the words of Jack Sparrow "The only rules that really matter are these.  What a man can do, and what a man can't do.", And a Pirate can do this:

 

https://youtube.com/clip/UgyR6tFUU8pIDeeKTfh4AaABCQ

Oh you went there did you? 

 

[Crazycrab]

53 minutes ago, Reality vs Adventure said:

Oh you went there did you? 

 

 

Yeah.... Cause this is historically accurate.

 

Here's the reality. Ninjas are peasant rebels that use improvised farming tools and short swords.  They were forced to deceptive stealth and ambush tactics because they knew they couldn't beat the military Samurai in a fair fight.  Don't get me wrong, I respect the hell out of them for being able to make the best out the skills and tools they had.  But I'm also a realist.

 

Pirates are Royal and Spanish navy sailors (or at very least trained by them) who were among the best soldiers around at the time.  They also used deception and ambush tactics but they where armed with Cutless swords, grenades, cannons, rifles, blunderbusses and multiple single shot pistols.

 

It you genuinely believe Ninja poses a bigger threat then a 18th century Carribbean Pirate you've bought into the "Hollywood" hype that their skills are borderline supernatural (much like that video).  If you use logic and historical facts then it's clear the Pirate is just as well (I'd argue better) trained and WAY better equipped.  I know I made a bit a joke with the India Jones clip bit it's also the truth.  Bring a knife to a gun fight and the gun is going to win, end of story.

[The Blackangel]

20 hours ago, Crazycrab said:

Here's the reality. Ninjas are peasant rebels that use improvised farming tools and short swords.  They were forced to deceptive stealth and ambush tactics because they knew they couldn't beat the military Samurai in a fair fight.  Don't get me wrong, I respect the hell out of them for being able to make the best out the skills and tools they had.  But I'm also a realist.

You might be accurate for some, but not all. Many were dismissed samurai warriors who had no other means of supporting themselves. After a shogun died, many became reclusive and left their old life behind. The skills were passed on by the best to the newcomers and the ninja life was borne to them. So to say that they were merely untrained peasants is a gross misstatement. They were highly trained. They may not have had the technology that the pirates had, but calling them rebels with pitchforks is an ignorant statement.

[Shagger]

1 minute ago, The Blackangel said:

You might be accurate for some, but not all. Many were dismissed samurai warriors who had no other means of supporting themselves. After a shogun died, many became reclusive and left their old life behind. The skills were passed on by the best to the newcomers and the ninja life was borne to them. So to say that they were merely untrained peasants is a gross misstatement. They were highly trained. They may not have had the technology that the pirates had, but calling them rebels with pitchforks is an ignorant statement.

 

I was under the impression Samurai were of noble birth, sworn to service of thier bloodline and thus the only way out of service was death.

[The Blackangel]

4 minutes ago, Shagger said:

I was under the impression Samurai were of noble birth, sworn to service of thier bloodline and thus the only way out of service was death.

Not always. If they committed an act their lord didn't like they had 2 options: exile or death. Many chose death, but many chose exile as well. They couldn't show their face anywhere, or they would face death by their former compatriots. So they hid their face, and used their skills to survive.

[Reality vs Adventure]

21 hours ago, Crazycrab said:

Here's the reality. Ninjas are peasant rebels that use improvised farming tools and short swords.  They were forced to deceptive stealth and ambush tactics because they knew they couldn't beat the military Samurai in a fair fight.  Don't get me wrong, I respect the hell out of them for being able to make the best out the skills and tools they had.  But I'm also a realist.

So those same tactics will be used to defeat a pirate because if the pirate can use their arsenal, is that a fair fight? A ninja won't get caught up in a pointless duel especially if the opponent has a gun. And if needed to strike from a distance, ninjas have poison darts for a blowgun and they also have crossbows. But with all that aside, a fight with swords only will still be the ninja that will win once again. Every ninja is trained, but a 'pirate' comes down to personal training or skill because not all are on equal footing. But if the ninja was caught and had their back against the wall against an armed pirate, then the ninja will rely on catching the bullet with their teeth technique.