Why you SHOUDN'T Join the Mages Guild in Oblivion. A Lore Perspective (Spoilers).

[Shagger]

Let me make it 100% clear that from a gameplay perspective you absolutely MUST join the Mages Guild in Oblivion as quickly as humanly possible because the spell crafting and enchanting mechanics are that valuable, but I came across this interesting video illustrating some of the issues of the Mages guild in terms of lore and logic within The Elder Scrolls. The creator of the video brings up some valid points. But let's not get ahead, here's the video.

 

 

Edited June 29, 2021 by Shagger

[Shole]

I actually never joined the Mages guild, I only went for the Thiefs and Dark Brotherhood, and rarely the Blades, but very very rarely.

[Heatman]

On 6/29/2021 at 1:57 PM, Shagger said:

Let me make it 100% clear that from a gameplay perspective you absolutely MUST join the Mages Guild in Oblivion as quickly as humanly possible because the spell crafting and enchanting mechanics are that valuable, but I came across this interesting video illustrating some of the issues of the Mages guild in terms of lore and logic within The Elder Scrolls. The creator of the video brings up some valid points. But let's not get ahead, here's the video.

 

 

I have always loved how good Mages are with their magical powers especially the ones that tap into dark the dark arts. 

[Withywarlock]

I thought this was a decent video. I would've liked more citations for claims in regards to how necromancy works, as well as maybe dispelling some of the myths surrounding the school of conjuration versus necromancy, but it did an OK job of explaining these things and giving the lore a respectable enough look to have some nice discussion about it. I think I could easily sit with this person and talk to them about the game, though if things got heated I'd personally want to have a laptop between us so we can show each other our sources.

[Heatman]

On 7/6/2021 at 12:31 AM, Shole said:

I actually never joined the Mages guild, I only went for the Thiefs and Dark Brotherhood, and rarely the Blades, but very very rarely.

Are you really being very serious about not joining mages? Why if I may ask or you don't generally like it? 

[killamch89]

I joined the Mages Guild in Oblivion because magic is my natural calling. Necromancy is apart of magic - so let me get this straight, you can summon creatures from the Daedric realm and most people don't bat an eye but you raise one dead body and it's like the end of the world. It's not like I went full Nightking and raising every dead body I come across - no wait, I've pretty much done that before lol. But seriously, the video does have some extremely valid points but nobody has any issues with summoning bound weapons which are Daedra formed into a weapon by the way but as soon as Necromancy is involved, it's a big issue.

[Shagger]

15 minutes ago, killamch89 said:

I joined the Mages Guild in Oblivion because magic is my natural calling. Necromancy is apart of magic - so let me get this straight, you can summon creatures from the Daedric realm and most people don't bat an eye but you raise one dead body and it's like the end of the world. It's not like I went full Nightking and raising every dead body I come across - no wait, I've pretty much done that before lol. But seriously, the video does have some extremely valid points but nobody has any issues with summoning bound weapons which are Daedra formed into a weapon by the way but as soon as Necromancy is involved, it's a big issue.

 

I suppose that, in a way, it is similar to the prospect of people leaving thier bodies to medical science and plenty of people wouldn't have an issue with that. However, necromancy isn't exactly medical science, it's abusing people's remains to use them for personal gain, like for combat or personal defence, and that is kind of sick. Summoned Deadra are clearly not creatures of will, otherwise why would they serve you? So I see summoning them as a different matter. When an Atroanch or bound weapon is summoned, nobody's remains have been defiled for selfish gain. If it were me, I wouldn't like to think that my corpse was being uses as a weapon, especially in the likely truth that the one wielding me as that weapon was the one that killed me in the first place.

Edited August 14, 2021 by Shagger

[killamch89]

3 hours ago, Shagger said:

I suppose that, in a way, it is similar to the prospect of people leaving thier bodies to medical science and plenty of people wouldn't have an issue with that. However, necromancy isn't exactly medical science, it's abusing people's remains to use them for personal gain, like for combat or personal defence, and that is kind of sick. Summoned Deadra are clearly not creatures of will, otherwise why would they serve you? So I see summoning them as a different matter. When an Atroanch or bound weapon is summoned, nobody's remains have been defiled for selfish gain. If it were me, I wouldn't like to think that my corpse was being uses as a weapon, especially in the likely truth that the one wielding me as that weapon was the one that killed me in the first place.

It's a grave misconception to think that Daedric summonings don't have their own will. Yes, the summoning is binded by their contract to obey their summoner but that contract can easily be broken if the summoner is naive. For instance, "A tragedy in black" the story in one of the books from Oblivion is a primary example where the summoner got his soul captured in black gem due to him accepting the black soul gem as a gift breaking the contract of binding. The daedric summon subsequently killed him and captured his soul in a black gem. As a matter of fact, it was the elves dabbling in daedric summoning that weakened the barrier between Mundus and the planes of Oblivion.

In ESO, the summoning art that we came to know in Oblivion and Skyrim was originally made up of two processes: One to summon the daedric entity and one to bind it. One mispoken word during the incantation of either process and the summoner would lose their very soul. In another ESO book that I can't quite remember, another naive summoner conjured a bound weapon and he was too weak to control it and got killed by it as a result. Fudgemuppet goes into further details about the dangers of Conjuration - particularly Daedric summoning: 

 

[Heatman]

On 8/14/2021 at 9:55 PM, killamch89 said:

I joined the Mages Guild in Oblivion because magic is my natural calling. Necromancy is apart of magic - so let me get this straight, you can summon creatures from the Daedric realm and most people don't bat an eye but you raise one dead body and it's like the end of the world. It's not like I went full Nightking and raising every dead body I come across - no wait, I've pretty much done that before lol. But seriously, the video does have some extremely valid points but nobody has any issues with summoning bound weapons which are Daedra formed into a weapon by the way but as soon as Necromancy is involved, it's a big issue.

Seriously, what is it with the fear of the dead? Like people are so freaked out about seeing the dead walk amongst them again. I think it's why they necromancy too much.