Scottish Independence - An Opinion Piece.

[Shagger]

As prompted from a discussion on another thread by @The Blackangel, here is my take on what have been a very divisive political debate with regard to whether or not my country, Scotland, should be independent from the United Kingdom. As I briefly pointed out in the aforementioned discussion, I can't talk about this and maintain a neutral perspective, so here's some links to provide full context.

 

The Anglo-Scottish Wars

History of the Union of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Island

The Treaty of the Union

Wikipedia page detailing the Scottish Independence Referendum that took place in 2014

 

From this point on, this post becomes an opinion piece, not to be taken as a documentation of neutral fact. I'm not going to lie in this, but this is being written from an unapologetically bias perspective, bear that in mind. I'm also not gonna link to every little incident and happening throughout the course of events as that would take forever and this this only meant to be a recollection of my view and what I personally observed.

 

When the referendum for independence happened in 2014, I was very much on the side in support of the union. My reasons for this combined a lack of confidence in the SNP (Scottish Nationalist Party, currently the party in power in the Scottish Parliament) trying to deliver independence, sever doubt over Scotland's economic prosperity as an independent nation and ineligibility to remain a part of the EU (I know Brexit happened and we left the EU as part of the UK anyway, but more on that later.).

 

The biggest reason for my support of the union was more personal though. I work in Shipbuilding and one of the Scottish Shipbuilding and Ship maintenance's biggest clients is the Royal Navy of Great Britain. We have been maintaining Royal Navy ships at the Dockyard where I work for over a century. Back in the nineties, this shipyard was bought from the UK's Ministry of Defence by an private engineering frim called Babcock, and that is who I work for today. There was benefits and drawbacks to this shipyard being privatised, but the overall goal was for the shipyard to continue it's work in a way that was more cost effective to the government. This matters when it comes to and independent Scotland because;

 

1. These multi-billion dollar engineering firms Babcock and BAE Systems operating shipyards on the Clyde have other interests and infrastructure operation outside of Scotland, including other Shipyards in the UK. In other words, Companies like the aforementioned can in theory keep contracts with the Royal Navy without having to operate in Scotland.
2. The Royal Navy has long standing rules that states no warships for the Royal Navy can be build outside the UK. There are other protocols that also limit access to other nations and thier citizens to these ships and thier technology.

 

Only a few years before and after the referendum, a lot of new ships were being commissioned to be and being built inside Scotland such as the Type 42 Destroyer, Type 26 Frigate, QEC Class Aircraft Carrier and soon to start Type 31 Frigate. These projects combine to sustain thousands of jobs in Scotland and they would all be in sever jeopardy if Scotland became independent from the UK. That was my main reason for not wanting this happen back in 2014.

 

Since then my opinion has only been reaffirmed with what I would describe as an ill-focused SNP party that's supposed to be governing us.  Like toddlers not getting thier own way, thier leader at the time immediately resigned to eventually face sexual misconduct chargers, have supported blatantly transphobic policies, let education and healthcare systems down all because the only thing they have been focused on for the last seven years in another independence referendum. The vote was supposed to be "once in a generation" (thier words), but because they can't take a loss, they've done nothing but throw thier toys out the pram for the last seven years and I'm fucking sick of them.

 

They would do, and have done, pretty much anything to try and get more votes swinging thier way. This includes giving votes to prisoners that they already buttered up with free phones and gadgets and moving old people infected with COVID-19 out of hospital and into care homes without screening of any kind nor quarantine in the hope that will "cull" off old people as statistics showed they were far more inclined to vote no for independence.

 

They even flipped flopped on Brexit. One of the big issues brought up during the referendum campaign was Scotland's ineligibility to retain EU membership if they broke apart from the UK. Scotland didn't want to leave the EU then (nether did I, I did not support Brexit), nor did we want to leave with the Brexit vote, but with our comparatively small population, our vast majority of "no" votes weren't enough to swing the overall vote to remain in the EU. Of course, the SNP blamed Scotland leaving the EU on the fact that Scotland was a part of the UK. The problem is they needed people to forget that if Scotland had left the UK back in 2014, we would have left the EU anyway. Sadly, far too many people ate this up like morons being feed slop they were told was caviar. The SNP are politicians for the stupid. As result, and despite the fact that most (impartial) economic experts concluded an independent Scotland wouldn't be eligible to re-join the EU anyway, Brexit became the spearhead for the SNP to push for another independence referendum only two years after the first one. You know I'm not making this up because I couldn't. I'm saddened that I lack the talent to make this up!

 

These Nazi-Sympathisers (and that's not an exaggeration, the SNP really were Nazi-sympathisers. Why? Because they believed that if Nazi Germany won WWII, Scotland would have a better chance to becoming independent from the UK. They are as foolish as they are morally bankrupted.) have ruined Scotland. I've heard Americans say "Trump hasn't made America great again, he's made America HATE again." Well, Nicola Sturgeon is our trump. Scotland is not the welcoming, hospitable nation it used to be. We are more bigoted and hate fuelled than ever thanks to that troglodyte Sturgeon, her SNP lackeys and thier bigoted supporters. Thier politics have divided this country in the worst way. Some Americans reading this may think "We had it bad with Trump" for four years. Well, we have been putting with Sturgeon and her equally bigoted and misguided predecessor combined for over a decade and there is no "Biden" on the horizon. We're stuck with them.

 

I don't want to see Scotland be independent right now for reasons stemming from my personal circumstance, but I'm not opposed to Scotland becoming independent someday. However, I will NEVER vote for Scotland to sail to independent sea's if it's these fuckers manning the helm. They want independence solely to herald themselves as hero's like Robert the Bruce or William Wallace when they just aren't. Scotland's parliament is already devolved, has been since 1998, so the Scottish government has at least 90% of the powers that they would have in an independent Scotland. They misuse the power that they already have, so there is no way I'm going to trust them to govern an independent Scotland. They are not interested in governing Scotland, they've proven that. They even hold potentially beneficial policy hostage claiming "We can't put this into force as part of the UK" when they totally can. They want to make Scotland independent, not govern Scotland.

Edited July 20, 2021 by Shagger

[Reality vs Adventure]

The SNP claimed that the independence referendum is ‘once in a generation' opportunity and that the majority of Scotland voted against it in 2014 making the SNP the minority in that referendum. Then they try to push it again a couple years later without UK recognition which they legally need. So it does seem they are trying to idolize themselves as heroes. I feel you having to deal with those nationalists rule for a decade now. It seems nationalists are gaining power around the democratic world and corruption and abuse go hand in hand with them. I wouldn’t want an independent Scotland with those MF at the helm either. The majority has already spoken. Hopefully new elections will get those parasites out, and I whole heartedly agree that Scotland should have trustworthy leadership before becoming an independent country. Or else it’s just a power grab, corrupted government set to fail the people for generations to come. But what can you do when leadership doesn't have the interest of the majority? I don't have a f*** clue. Thanks for sharing a bit of history about Scotland, we hardly hear much about them. Brexit really did put pressure on Scotland and I hope they get it right. It seems historical events keep occurring when the least competent people are in power. 

[Reality vs Adventure]

After reading more about what the SNP is in policies- left, right, or center, I think that nationalism has a different meaning in Scottish politics. I'm really confused because they are supposedly left-center? That doesn't make sense as nationalism is usually far right. But they do support nationalistic views as to put country first over anything else. But they have taken in refugees from Syria. Usually, nationalism is isolationism and anti-immigration, anti everything and questionable NATO alliance. Do political terms have different meanings or a more broad range of ideologies? 

[Shagger]

6 hours ago, Reality vs Adventure said:

After reading more about what the SNP is in policies- left, right, or center, I think that nationalism has a different meaning in Scottish politics. I'm really confused because they are supposedly left-center? That doesn't make sense as nationalism is usually far right. But they do support nationalistic views as to put country first over anything else. But they have taken in refugees from Syria. Usually, nationalism is isolationism and anti-immigration, anti everything and questionable NATO alliance. Do political terms have different meanings or a more broad range of ideologies? 

 

They are something of an odd ball. They are a Nationalist Party, but do often fall on the left with policy. To me though, it's pretty much irrelevant because trust me when I tell you that Scottish independence is the only thing they care about.

[The Blackangel]

Is their mascot a big picture of Sawney Bean?

[Crazycrab]

10 minutes ago, The Blackangel said:

Is their mascot a big picture of Sawney Bean?

 

No, but I think it might actually be quite a clever strategy for the SNP.  One Google search on this guy and everyone in England would think "Ok... FUCK THIS!  Give them independence and leave them be!". 😅

[Jayson]

I don't really see why Scotland and Wales shouldn't be independent.   However, then again, they are sort of independent.  Well, the USA is composed of states like Texas which seem like they would be good on their own, but they're happy not being so.

Anyway, in the past, Scotland and England fought vicious wars.  Well, do France and England want to be united?

Edited February 18, 2022 by Jayson

[Techno]

9 hours ago, Jayson said:

I don't really see why Scotland and Wales shouldn't be independent.   However, then again, they are sort of independent.  Well, the USA is composed of states like Texas which seem like they would be good on their own, but they're happy not being so.

Good point, Scotland and Wales are actually more or less able to self-govern themselves, it's could be reasonably compared to US. The UK is more or less a group of self-ran governments under the control of a federal government. 

[Jayson]

On 2/18/2022 at 12:09 PM, Techno said:

Good point, Scotland and Wales are actually more or less able to self-govern themselves, it's could be reasonably compared to US. The UK is more or less a group of self-ran governments under the control of a federal government. 

Well, such a situation is tolerable minus tyranny. Obviously, Scots and others in the past didn't want any outside rule cause the experience must have been oppressive.  Anyway, Ireland has felt that it should have no foreign rule at all - and that's a respectable decision.

[Crazycrab]

On 2/18/2022 at 5:09 PM, Techno said:

Good point, Scotland and Wales are actually more or less able to self-govern themselves, it's could be reasonably compared to US. The UK is more or less a group of self-ran governments under the control of a federal government. 

 

Speaking as a Scotsman here, I can only think only think of one reason for Scotland to become independent and that would be to re-join the EU, but even debatable.  In my opinion it would be a total waste of time and money.  Were mostly government internally anyway and the policy's that are still governed at Westminster are stuff like National Defence, immigration and vehicle licensing.  These make perfect sense because if someone declared war on us were still the same island and it would be horribly inconvenient if one a passport and the rules of the road suddenly changed traveling from Glasgow to Newcastle.  I'll leave a live a link to a PDF for Westminster's reserved matters if you want to know more:

 

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-8544/CBP-8544.pdf

 

If Scotland were to become independent we would have to spend years and billions of pounds re-establishing our military, immigration, taxation, vehicle licensing, nuclear deterrent, energy policy's, international trade agreements and a bunch of other things that as of right now are already there.  It's just not worth it.