Jayson Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 23 hours ago, Crazycrab said: Even if we were to accept the rights and life of the fetus why do they override the rights and life of the mother that actually has feelings? It's still a hypocritical and disgusting point of view and I make no apologies for calling it out for what it is. The baby has feelings also. However, pro-choice people do not accept it's worthy of full protection under the law - unless the mom agrees. That's pretty much why these debates don't go anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazycrab Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 12 minutes ago, Jayson said: The baby has feelings also. However, pro-choice people do not accept it's worthy of full protection under the law - unless the mom agrees. That's pretty much why these debates don't go anywhere. Post some definitive evidence that a fetus has feelings before 24 weeks... Go on... I'll still be here.... You know what since right wingers generally don't give a shit about evidence I'll do it for you. Studies indicate that the earliest evidence on sentience happens at between 18 - 25 weeks. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.3109/14767059209161911#:~:text=Thus%2C 18 to 25 weeks,of sentience could be placed. So ok, I'm willing to concede that it is at least possible that the fetus has feelings at the point where it can be safely aborted. So let's say hypothetically a law was passed that forbid abortion before 17 weeks, would that change your mind? Even if it doesn't, your still ignoring the rights of the mother. The 100% undeniably confirmed fully grown fully sentient human being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blackangel Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 20 hours ago, Crazycrab said: Even if it doesn't, your still ignoring the rights of the mother. The 100% undeniably confirmed fully grown fully sentient human being. I don't know if "ignoring" is the right word. "Refusing to acknowledge the woman's rights because it threatens his superiority over women" is more accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 On 2/22/2022 at 10:41 AM, The Blackangel said: I don't know if "ignoring" is the right word. "Refusing to acknowledge the woman's rights because it threatens his superiority over women" is more accurate. Superiority isn't up for debate. If the baby, wasn't in the woman, then yes. What about the baby's rights? No, it doesn't have any (sarcastically) because it isn't a real human being. Its playdough that could be carved into something, but if not, can just be put back in the container. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blackangel Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 3 hours ago, Jayson said: Superiority isn't up for debate. Hence, he believes he is above all others, and everyone is inferior to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 (edited) I'm assuming this is the correct thread. Anyway, this debate is dead in the water. I can't answer opposing points, because they simply don't accept that an unborn baby is a life equal to a newborn. However, if someone else wants to come on here, they're more than welcome, but it would lead to the same thing. Anyway, I think perhaps someone will come with some compromising abortion argument, but it doesn't make any sense. It's like when Lincoln argued that the Union should either be all slave or all free. Edited March 24, 2022 by Jayson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazycrab Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 5 hours ago, Jayson said: Anyway, I think perhaps someone will come with some compromising abortion argument, but it doesn't make any sense. It's like when Lincoln argued that the Union should either be all slave or all free. The point Lincoln was making is that it's BS for any to be treated differently. Your talking that completely out of context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazycrab Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 5 hours ago, Jayson said: I can't answer opposing points, because they simply don't accept that an unborn baby is a life equal to a newborn. Yes you can answer opposing points, your just choosing not to and making excuses. Earlier I posted this: On 2/21/2022 at 7:04 PM, Crazycrab said: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.3109/14767059209161911#:~:text=Thus%2C 18 to 25 weeks,of sentience could be placed. So ok, I'm willing to concede that it is at least possible that the fetus has feelings at the point where it can be safely aborted. Yet your still making that bullshit excuse. Let's say your crystal clear 100% right that what is in the womb during pregnancy from the moment of conception through birth is a legit human being that deserves the same rights and any other person on this earth. What if it's an Ectopic Pregnancy? Yep, I'm doing it again because you ducking and avoiding it. Is it right to take the life of someone who's going to die anyway to save the life of someone else, or should we just let them both die? Because the latter is exactly what Catholic run hospitals all across America believe is the right thing to do: https://www.birthrightfilm.com/key-issue-areas/catholic-healthcare You move @Jayson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 On 2/20/2022 at 2:27 PM, Crazycrab said: Well for starters the window where a fetus can be aborted ends at 24 weeks, LONG before the baby is actually born. So I'm a little confused as to exactly when in your mind this transition period between the fetus having rights and having none actually should be. It starts at conception. It's either an equal life or it isn't. On 2/20/2022 at 2:27 PM, Crazycrab said: Even if we were to accept the rights and life of the fetus why do they override the rights and life of the mother that actually has feelings? It's still a hypocritical and disgusting point of view and I make no apologies for calling it out for what it is. It's because the fetus is a life equal to the mom. Quote Like @kingpotato said earlier they will defend to the the death the rights of a non-sentient fetus but don't give a fraction of shit about the rights of the one that's pregnant with it. Instead they slut shame and insult them for having sex out of wedlock an not using the contraception their against. They don't make any exception for victims of rape either and Christian hospitals will even refuse to abort even in cases of Ectopic Pregnancies where the fetus cannot survive and the patient's life is in immediate jeapordy. So much for fucking "pro-life"! These are freak cases like with fetuses that are highly deformed way beyond Downs Syndrome or something. Well, that's a touchy subject, but we should try to preserve life as much as possible and a better solution is for irresponsible people to avoid pregnancy. The problem is that pro-choice people want to throw monkey-wrenches into the argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reality vs Adventure Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 15 minutes ago, Jayson said: It's because the fetus is a life equal to the mom. That is the laziest answer and just has a robotic feel to it. Your answer is that an unborn fetus's life should take precedence over the mother's life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Reality vs Adventure said: That is the laziest answer and just has a robotic feel to it. Your answer is that an unborn fetus's life should take precedence over the mother's life? I believe in respect for human life to the utmost degree. Anyway, if a baby's umbilical cord wraps around the baby, the odds are the baby dies and the mom lives. That's what it seems like. In that case, the mom isn't to blame. Edited March 25, 2022 by Jayson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shagger Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 29 minutes ago, Jayson said: I believe in respect for human life to the utmost degree. Anyway, if a baby's umbilical cord wraps around the baby, the odds are the baby dies and the mom lives. That's what it seems like. In that case, the mom isn't to blame. No you don't. If you believe that victims of rape, incest and woman who have suffered an Ectopic Pregnancy or other complications shouldn't have the right to have an abortion, you do not not respect life at all. The the anti-abortion crowds favourite lie. And by the way, an ambilocal cord getting tangled round a baby's neck is not fatal because that's exactly what happen when my son was born. It's a minor complication and happens quite a lot. It just shows that you don't actually know much about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazycrab Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jayson said: These are freak cases like with fetuses that are highly deformed way beyond Downs Syndrome or something. Well, that's a touchy subject, but we should try to preserve life as much as possible and a better solution is for irresponsible people to avoid pregnancy. The problem is that pro-choice people want to throw monkey-wrenches into the argument. Ectopic Pregnancies are not a "monkey wrench" I'm throwing win an argument. It's a real life threatening condition where the fetus will end in miscarriage no matter what and can also rupture in the fallopian tube which would lead potentially lethal hemorrhaging. So the choices are: Do nothing and just let the mother die. Monitor the mother's condition. Then when the inevitable fallopian rupture occurs rush her into emergency surgery and hope that the rupture can be sealed before she bleeds to death. Even a successful surgery will result in a difficult recovery and lasting damage to reproductive and possibly other organs. By far the safest option is to abort the fetus before the 12th week. The recovery (physical at least) is quick and the risk of long term damage is minimal. Once again I must state that Catholic Hospitals in America and throughout the world will refuse to treat someone with this condition. Some will even refuse to provide treatment for vaginal bleeding following a miscarriage when there was no abortion! I don't keep bringing this up to "throw a wrench". I do it because I actually want to know if there's is any circumstance where you might consider an abortion acceptable or if you agree with them that it is never justified. This will be the last time though because it seems that your answer is becoming clear. Edited March 25, 2022 by Crazycrab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blackangel Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 15 hours ago, Jayson said: The problem is that pro-choice people want to throw monkey-wrenches into the argument. No we don't. We believe in women's rights, and bodily autonomy. You can not, and will not tell someone what they can do with their own body. You might as well dictate what their hair looks like. North Korea does it. Move there. You're obviously of the same mindset as them. Go worship Kimmy. Maybe you can lick his asshole clean. Hell, he invented the hamburger, so they obviously have great food over there. The point is that you want to dictate a woman's rights. You place women beneath you. You're a chickenshit misogynist. And I'm really getting sick of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 (edited) On 3/25/2022 at 12:35 PM, The Blackangel said: No we don't. We believe in women's rights, and bodily autonomy. You can not, and will not tell someone what they can do with their own body. You might as well dictate what their hair looks like. North Korea does it. Move there. You're obviously of the same mindset as them. Go worship Kimmy. Maybe you can lick his asshole clean. Hell, he invented the hamburger, so they obviously have great food over there. The point is that you want to dictate a woman's rights. You place women beneath you. You're a chickenshit misogynist. And I'm really getting sick of it. What about the baby? Once the baby is born nobody cares about the woman's argument if there is a "death" or "abuse" of the baby. What should it be the difference before it's born? Women should have full rights to do what they want with their own body, assuming there's no other body forced to be dependent on it. Edited March 28, 2022 by Jayson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
