Gun Control

[Jayson]

Do you feel it is necessary and how much?  Myself, I don't like banning guns, but I feel like the mentally ill and criminals should have have laws against them getting one, which they do, but I don't think they are enforced good enough.   Anyhow, it's tragic that people die from guns, but maybe society should cure other major problems which could be big factors in causing these deaths.

[Reality vs Adventure]

Biden just banned ghost guns which are unlicensed gun kits you put together at home and has no serial number so those guns are untraceable and no background checks. Isn't that a decent gun law to have? Not for the GOP. They are now voting to try and block that law. I can see how the party of terrorists wouldn't want a ban on ghost guns. 

[Crazycrab]

The 2nd amendment right to "Bear Arms" in the US needs to removed or at very least updated.

 

Back when it was drafted young was America was governed by frontier law, so for most settlers the only defense against bandits, horse rustlers and whatever else was themselves.  Not to mention the firearms at the time were one, maybe two shot pistol's, rifles and muskets that to from 30 seconds to a minute to reload.  Things are VERY different now but that law has not evolved nearly enough.

 

On 2/17/2022 at 5:27 AM, Jayson said:

Myself, I don't like banning guns, but I feel like the mentally ill and criminals should have have laws against them getting one, which they do, but I don't think they are enforced good enough

 

Your quick to blame the mentally ill and criminals for America's gun problems.  While I agree that those things can play a factor but I'm certain that you must have noticed that America is the only 1st world country that a consistent problem with mass shootings and other gun crimes.

 

 

All countries have problems with mental health, criminal activity, substance abuse and numerous other issues.  So why is that despite these issues existing everywhere it's only America that seems to have this problem?  I'm sorry to burst your conservative bubble but the reason is because the the guns laws as well as gun culture in America are to relaxed.   

 

I know some people are going to say they need guns for "protection" but let me tell you a story.  In my home country (Scotland) back in 1996 there was a mass shooting at a primary school in the small town of Dunblane (not actually that far away from where I live).  The perpetrator, Thomas Hamilton, armed with two 9mm Browning HP automatic pistols and two Smith & Wesson M19 .357 Magnum revolvers shot and killed 16 children between the ages of 5 and 6, the Primary 1 school teacher, injured 15 others before shooting himself.  Here is the wiki page if you want to know more but the main point I want to make here is that in the year following the incident new legislation was passed in the House of Commons that pretty much banned the private ownership of all handguns in this country and guess what... There hasn't been an incident like this in the UK since. 

 

You might have noticed that Japan is sitting at the bottom of the chart with a grand total of 0 mass shootings.  That's because it is pretty the hardest place in the world to legally own a firearm and, "big shock", gun crime is almost non-existent.

 

Face the facts, guns are useless for protecting, only attacking.  Carrying a weapon doesn't prevent trouble, it attracts it.  All humans no matter how "responsible" are walking chemical factories ruled by unstable impulses and emotions.  That is even before all the numerous external chemicals like alcohol, caffeine, nicotine and recreational/prescription drugs that many of us add to that mess.  We are biologically not stable enough or socialy responsible enough to be in any circumstance where any random person has the power to end someone's life with the ease of pulling a trigger.

 

The reason why these laws won't change is because gun companies like Remington have lobbyists that keep enough politicians swimming in money in exchange for protection against legislation that would save lives, but their bottom line is obviously more important right?

 

The only people who should be carrying in public are law enforcement and even then only under very specific circumstances like guardian potential hot spots for terrorism or other high profile criminal activity.  Private ownership should be limited only to people with jobs that genuinely need them like farmers, hunters and vets.

[Shagger]

To @Reality vs Adventure and @Crazycrab as well as anyone else who wishes to comment on this. I feel compelled to point out that the opening poster (Jayson) has been banned form VGR between when he started this topic and now that people are actually starting to reply. That doesn't mean the thread will get locked or anything, it's still a valid enough topic even without him, I'm just pointing that out so people don't expect a reply from Jayson that will never come.

 

Now that's said, let's continue.

 

I'm not American, so I expect an American to take anything I have to say on this issue with a grain salt. I have not lived in a society with the kind of attitude and culture towards firearms that America has, so I'm not in a place to say what that is like. However, I'm with @Crazycrab completely on this. There is truth to the cliché "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." as attitude is as important a factor as anything in this. The gun itself is merely a tool, a machine. Like all machines, it's function is to make doing a certain task easier for a human being to do. It is only as dangerous as the person wielding it. However, when that deigned purpose is to kill, it has to be looked at a little bit different. You can kill somebody with a hammer or a hacksaw, but that's not what they are designed for. So to me, the gun isn't the problem, its the amount of respect people show it. And as far as I can tell, too many Americans who have guns do not respect them. 

 

I remember this horrifying story from a few years ago about an 8 year old who shot his Grandmother after playing GTA IV. Can't say I blame the kid, after being asked by Roman to play pool or go bowling for the 800th time, I'd kill the first living thing I find as well. All joking aside, many people tried to blame the game. Well, at least one neighbour had common sense. From the article;

 

Neighbour Johnnie Scott said: "Where did she have the gun? Where did he see the gun, was it in his eyesight? That's the thought that goes through my head."

 

Exactly! Imagine if this situation had exactly the same, expect instead of the boy shooting his grandmother, he had accidentally shot himself. That woman would been beyond ridiculed and criticised for leaving that gun in a position, locked, loaded and ready to go, where an 8 year old was able to get his hands on it and shoot it. For some reason I doubt the safety catch was on when he picked up the gun, otherwise he'd have to know how to disengage it. So l believe found the gun in that condition, just lying out in the open ready to fire. Both morally and legally it's difficult to blame the child and people don't want to blame the grandmother because she died in the incident, so take the easy way out and blame the game. 

 

Just because she died in the incident, doesn't change the fact she 100% and solely responsible for what happened. And it is this casual attitude that she, and much of America, have towards guns that killed her. If I had a gun along with a small kid in the house, it would have it's safety catch on, out of easy reach, with a trigger lock attached, be locked in a safe hidden being a inconspicuous paining behind a secret wall guarded by robots and lasers, it would NOT be just laying around.

 

So my question is, especially to Americans reading this who own a firearm, what is it to you? Is it something you would happily leave in it's pride of place next to the TV remote, or is a deadly device you keep secure, because I cannot imaging living with a gun and treating it like that grandmother did.

Edited April 17, 2022 by Shagger

[Crazycrab]

17 minutes ago, Shagger said:

To @Reality vs Adventure and @Crazycrab as well as anyone else who wishes to comment on this. I feel compelled to point out that the opening poster (Jayson) has been banned form VGR

 

Oh that's a shame.  I know he was a hypocritical, cowardly, homophobic, racist, pro-life obsessed evangelical stain but it was fun calling him out for all that crap.

Edited April 16, 2022 by Crazycrab

[Justin11]

Oh no, he's gone, will certainly miss the way he responds to threads in a confusing manner lol. Most of his threads hypocritical? I can't judge because I don't like calling people out in public like this. The thread continues, and it's time to add my own comment xD. 

To be frank, I don't carry gun, because it's of no benefit to my life, rather puts me under threat of losing my life due to law enforcement in my country, that stated; no individual is entitled to handle a gun without being a military personnel under the guidance of government. 

Edited April 16, 2022 by Justin11

[egghead]

Based on the image shared above, I think gun ownership does not heavily influence. For example, a lot of countries allow gun ownership but have 0 mass shootings.

[The Blackangel]

I want to point out first that I'm a gun owner. I have several.

.22 mag double barel
.25 semi-automatic
.38 special revolver
.380 semi-automatic
2 - .9mm one double barrel
.40 semi-automatic
.45 semi-automatic
.357 mag revolver
AR-15

And several hunting rifles.

 

That out of the way, I agree the 2nd amendment needs to be updated. What was relevant 250 years ago, isn't relevant today. Things change. You have to keep up with the change.

No why do I own these guns? I have owned guns all my life. I got my first one when I was 5, which was a .22 that had belonged to my grandfather. I was taught how to use a gun, to respect, and to treat ALL guns as if they were loaded. It doesn't matter if you know it's not loaded, you still treat it as if it is. I have 2 main reasons for owning all these guns.

• For home protection. I have lived in some heavy crime areas, and don't take chances anymore. I've also had some things happen here at my house where I live now. I don't fuck around.
• Target shooting. I enjoy getting some targets, and popping off a few rounds at them. I do the same thing with a slingshot, which BTW is also a laser sighted slingshot.

I took a hunters safety course when I was 13 and was the only one in the class who passed it with a perfect score. A couple years ago, I took the CCW class, and passed it with a perfect score as well. Which means I'm licensed to carry a concealed firearm. I carry the .380 in my purse, and the .357 on my hip. I know how to use the weapons, but won't unless I have no other choice. The .357 being a revolver, I have no choice but to have it fire ready. The .380 however, while the clip is full, there is no round in the chamber. Unless I'm about to fire it, there never will be a round in the chamber. I keep my weapons clean, and I keep them ready. But above all else, I keep them safe.

[Reality vs Adventure]

Now after back to back shootings there is gun debate again. Republicans refuse to pass any gun laws. In fact, the republican controlled supreme court is about to vote on expanding gun rights for open carry. And republican always go back to the same cliche how they need to arm schools and a good guy with a gun stops a bad guy with a gun. But what about body armor? When the shooter is wearing body armor and head armor, sorry but a good guy with a gun won't stop the bad guy. These past two shootings the shooters were wearing armor. One was shot and the bullet didn't penetrate and in return killed the security guard that shot him. That same guy shot up a store targeting blacks. Days after, another shooter went and shot up a school. He also wore armor and killed police. Police wear vests, but why are shooters being able to get better armor than police? So after all this, if you read some of the disgusting things republicans are now saying is just repulsive. This is a point of breakdown in society. 

I say have the government use fundings from emergency, epidemic, disaster funds, and provide every American with body armor that they must wear in all public places including schools. This is ridiculous of course, but is it really? When the whole country is embarrassed they have to wear armor and the world sees how crazy Americans are all with armor, then maybe leaders will be pressured to do something. If armor was mandated, republicans will then say it's against their personal rights like they did with masks in a pandemic. Then they will tell people not to wear armor in red states. So when those people later get shot and killed it will all be on republicans. But those that do wear armor, their chance of surviving is dramatically increased. 

So now three important bills just got rejected by all republicans in the senate. Disinformation Board-rejected. Domestic Terrorism law-rejected. Gun laws-always rejected. It's no wonder the republican party of terrorists would reject all those.

What else are we to do now when everything gets blocked by republicans, except to wear armor? Oh yeah, that'll get blocked too!

[Grungie]

On 4/16/2022 at 1:36 PM, Shagger said:

So my question is, especially to Americans reading this who own a firearm, what is it to you? Is it something you would happily leave in it's pride of place next to the TV remote, or is a deadly device you keep secure, because I cannot imaging living with a gun and treating it like that grandmother did.

I’m not a gun owner, nor do I have kids, but I’d definitely treat it like I would any other item that’s dangerous for kids, and keep it out of their reach. If you have knives, you shouldn’t leave that around for little Timmy to play with, or your medicine.

Gun safes are also a thing, and not uncommon. All of my coworkers that own guns, and have kids, also own a gun safe.

It sucks for what happened to the grandma, but at the same time, it does beg the question of why her gun was in a place where the kid could easily grab it?

[ForwardSlashDownPoke]

On 2/16/2022 at 9:27 PM, Jayson said:

Do you feel it is necessary and how much?  Myself, I don't like banning guns, but I feel like the mentally ill and criminals should have have laws against them getting one, which they do, but I don't think they are enforced good enough.   Anyhow, it's tragic that people die from guns, but maybe society should cure other major problems which could be big factors in causing these deaths.

I agree with the Founding Fathers in regards to the 2nd Amendment in the sense that it "shall not be infringed" upon under virtually any reason whatsoever. 

 

It was exposed during the "Church Committee" Hearings, ran by Frank Church in Congress, that the CIA was running an illegal mind control experiment called "MK Ultra" and that the FBI was running an illegal system called COINTELPRO (Counter Intelligence Program). One of the main persons conducting the mind control experimentation on behalf of the CIA was a person called "Dr." Ewen Cameron, who happened to be the President of the Canadian, American and WORLD Psychiatric Associations. In other words, the CIA's mind control doctor was at the highest levels of psychiatry in the world. 

 

Some researchers suggest that Dr. Cameron had a vital role in writing the DSM (some sort of psychological diagnosis program) and actually put stuff into the DSM of which were signs of symptoms from CIA human mind control experimentation, and the reason why he would have done that would to have been to provide himself with and the others with cover. Here is an article out of the McGill Daily in Canada, where it talks about his illegal mind control human experimentation in some detail:

 

MK-ULTRAViolence - The McGill Daily

 

Inside of the article it talks about how Cameron would effectively erase the minds of his victims, whoops I mean "patients", and then basically create a new identity. This would fall in line with what other people claim to be some type of "Manchurian candidates"; programmed human beings designed to carry out horrendous acts. TV Show Host Derren Brown goes even further and demonstrates exactly on video how he can turn certain types of people into Manchurian Candidates:

 

Derren Brown: The Assassin with Stephen Fry | The Experiments | FULL EPISODE - YouTube

 

There's a few other video's by Derren Brown that demonstrate similar effects. Here is a link to an article where some of the alleged victims of MK Ultra are suing over the torture in a class action lawsuit:

 

Class action suit by families of those brainwashed in Montreal medical experiments gets go-ahead | CBC News

 

I think that many of the people who go on these dangerous sprees are effectively some form of a Manchurian Candidate with the end result being the media machine right in lock step and key after the horrible tragedy to push for gun control and then ultimately remove the 2nd Amendment. After their goal of removing the second amendment, they would obviously do what any other communist regime in history does; which is to heavily abuse the population into complete submission (in my opinion). 

 

I believe the outburts from people are a combination of things, but certainly some of them are DIRECT Manchurian Candidates. Others could literally be fake incidents, although I think those are rare. Other incidents could involve several factors, such as the incident having the potential to be stopped IMMEDIATELY and with little to no casualties, but somebody is giving a stand down order (once again, so the higher ups can push gun control lock, step and key with the media machine). 

 

So it's my view that screening for mental illness is just the long game, sort of like starting at the 1 yard line in football and having to go the full distance for a touchdown, and it's really just a gateway for what is intended to be more rigorous control later, eventual confiscation from some groups, and then ultimately termination of the 2nd amendment. I just saw a left wing media outlet call for the repeal of the 2nd amendment like 2 weeks ago.