How irresponsible are the US poor?

[Jayson]

There is a lot of talk of welfare cheats and bums.  O.K., how much truth is there to this - and how much is it jerks "rubbing it in" to those who were unsuccessful in life?  Myself, I think a lot of people made bad choices and need to grow up and start with a winning plan.  However, though, while they are getting their game back in order, they need to be respected.  Anyway, though, if people are on welfare, it's really rude to comment, even with the fact that "taxpayers" front the bill for food stamps etc..  People should just mind their own business, at least in personal dealings with others.

[Reality vs Adventure]

How irresponsible are the rich? We had a president that is the only one who absolutely refuses to show his taxes; had a fake university he was sued for; went bankrupt multiple times. The rich have a lot of foreign accounts that they hide money and always cheating taxes. Many business owners used bailout money to buy expensive toys they didn't need. Central banks gamble people's money and drives us into recessions. The government prints paper money without having enough precious metals to back it up. Politicians take bribes or lobbying money instead of working for the interests of the people. 

There are a lot of people born to wealthy families who would naturally be a bum or loser if it weren't for their parents always providing everything they need. They can screw up in life with hardly any consequences and still have a house. In the real world how many of them would wind up in an apartment or trailer instead? 

The poor is not to blame for America's problems as a powerful country in the world with the highest financial rating. It's the irresponsibility of policy makers always leaving out the important things to better the education system (not whitewash it as what is currently happening to education or take money from public schools to finance private schools as Betsy Devos did in the trump administration); also increase min. wage; and create jobs. People don't want to be poor. Republicans are trying to take away the school lunch program. That has been put into place since WW2 when too many people were being denied into the draft because of poor health from malnutrition. So that program is to help children develop properly. Why take that away from children? 

Poor people have their problems and some have made bad decisions, but nobody is there to bail them out like we do for all the bad decisions that bankers and corporations make. We go into a recession and guess who gets the damn bonuses from the U.S. government? Fucking CEO's. Where is that damn trickle down? So there is a hell of a lot more freebies going around for the wealthy, it's just spread out to fewer people. 

[Jayson]

@Reality vs Adventure

I don't think anyone with a specialized career or even someone washing dishes for 20 years is going to be poor.  Obviously, people who are continuously poor have something wrong with them.  Perhaps they don't work well with others, on top of the fact maybe they picked a poor major in college or neglected trade school.

There is a quick rush to judgement by some types.   They want to put people down, but they don't want to offer real non-judgmental help. 

Anyway, as for the rich, I'm not sure if any "rich dummies - who get by only on mom and dad's money" actually exist.  Well, if they do, it's just the same situation as with the poor I mentioned above, except these "certain privileged ones" have a massive safety valve.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Jayson

[The Blackangel]

Let’s get one thing fucking straight right god damn now. BEING POOR DOES NOT MAKE SOMEONE A CHEAT, BUM, OR LOSER DESPITE YOUR DESPERATE DESIRE TO MAKE IT SO. I grew up bottom of the barrel poor. Not much has changed. If it wasn’t for disability and food stamps I would still be homeless, and still be dumpster diving for food. And it’s because of people like YOU. You don’t care to learn. You throw your labels and definitions onto other people, as if your opinion is the be-all-end-all of who and what they are. Have you ever even MET anyone who is or was homeless? Have you ever met someone who never had a chance in life? Your sense of superiority is what makes a huge portion of the population puke. The enmity we feel for you is because you intentionally use your ignorance to breed stupidity.

 

And you really think no stupid richies exist who get by on mommy and daddy’s buck? Try Paris Hilton.

[m76]

First thing first: I fully support personal responsibility, but to suggest that the poor are only poor out of choice is fucking stupid.

In the game of capitalism (yes, I think it is a game as it is not rooted in reality it has arbitrary rules we came up with), not everyone is given equal opportunities.

In a way being irresponsible can even help you succeed. Because the irresponsible / unintelligent person does not weigh possible outcomes, and is more willing to gamble, especially at other people's expense. But if he or she strikes gold they get lauded as a genius, when they might be the most stupid or irresponsible people. You don't have to look far. Donald Trump was a capitalist icon of success in the eighties, but in reality he has the mental age of a 12 year old. Elizabeth Holmes was lauded as pure genius until it turned out that she is a fraud. Elon Musk is still lauded as pure genius by many, when in reality he only failed, and his successes are despite of him, not because of him. He is a snakeoil salesmen, not a respectable person.

But to go into the average joe territory. The irresponsible one might get into cryptocurrencies or NFTs disregarding the environmental and economic impact of it. While the responsible person says, no thanks, I'd rather not taint my conscience for short term gains.

 

So the idea that the poor are stupid can only come from the mouth of a truly stupid rich person.

[The Blackangel]

2 hours ago, m76 said:

First thing first: I fully support personal responsibility, but to suggest that the poor are only poor out of choice is fucking stupid.

In the game of capitalism (yes, I think it is a game as it is not rooted in reality it has arbitrary rules we came up with), not everyone is given equal opportunities.

In a way being irresponsible can even help you succeed. Because the irresponsible / unintelligent person does not weigh possible outcomes, and is more willing to gamble, especially at other people's expense. But if he or she strikes gold they get lauded as a genius, when they might be the most stupid or irresponsible people. You don't have to look far. Donald Trump was a capitalist icon of success in the eighties, but in reality he has the mental age of a 12 year old. Elizabeth Holmes was lauded as pure genius until it turned out that she is a fraud. Elon Musk is still lauded as pure genius by many, when in reality he only failed, and his successes are despite of him, not because of him. He is a snakeoil salesmen, not a respectable person.

But to go into the average joe territory. The irresponsible one might get into cryptocurrencies or NFTs disregarding the environmental and economic impact of it. While the responsible person says, no thanks, I'd rather not taint my conscience for short term gains.

 

So the idea that the poor are stupid can only come from the mouth of a truly stupid rich person.

You make a lot of good points. I honestly can't find anything I disagree with, or could argue a is wrong.

[Jayson]

16 hours ago, The Blackangel said:

Let’s get one thing fucking straight right god damn now. BEING POOR DOES NOT MAKE SOMEONE A CHEAT, BUM, OR LOSER DESPITE YOUR DESPERATE DESIRE TO MAKE IT SO. I grew up bottom of the barrel poor. Not much has changed. If it wasn’t for disability and food stamps I would still be homeless, and still be dumpster diving for food. And it’s because of people like YOU. You don’t care to learn. You throw your labels and definitions onto other people, as if your opinion is the be-all-end-all of who and what they are. Have you ever even MET anyone who is or was homeless? Have you ever met someone who never had a chance in life? Your sense of superiority is what makes a huge portion of the population puke. The enmity we feel for you is because you intentionally use your ignorance to breed stupidity.

 

And you really think no stupid richies exist who get by on mommy and daddy’s buck? Try Paris Hilton.

I never said I agreed with this idea.  I do think personal choice matters somewhat but it's not the only thing, and if people do fail, rubbing it in isn't cool.  

As someone else noted on this thread, yes certain people have made good gambles and if they hadn't done so, they'd be thrown into the irresponsible group and told to "get a real job".

[Lamarr the strelok]

IDK where you go but welfare cheats and bums are the last thing I worry about where I go.Worrying about them is like worrying about a paper cut when you have a .45 cal bullet in your brain.And the fact you didn't mention the WORKING poor in the  original post says everything I need to know about where you're coming from . And yes you did agree with  that.'people that are constantly poor have something wrong with them'.Also if a poor person fucks up too bad he/she will be homeless.If you're rich and fuck up you'll go back to daddy's mansion. Big difference.

[Empire]

I honestly think the government should stop subsidizing kids until more people have jobs (take care of the people you have now, don't make more problems). I also advocate reworking the welfare system to most monetary benefits going to utilitiy companies, landlords/housing, and taxes only and just giving out food stamps and vouchers for job training as the rest.

[Jayson]

14 hours ago, Empire said:

I honestly think the government should stop subsidizing kids until more people have jobs (take care of the people you have now, don't make more problems). I also advocate reworking the welfare system to most monetary benefits going to utilitiy companies, landlords/housing, and taxes only and just giving out food stamps and vouchers for job training as the rest.

That sounds reasonable.  However, abortion should be off the list - because it's wrong.   Anyway, though, a lot of nations actually need more people.  For instance, some examples are Eastern European nations and Japan.   However, though, there needs to be a good economy so families can flourish.