9th gen - The biggest graphical leap since 5th gen?

[NightmareFarm]

 

 

We're in for a shock once UE5 games become the norm. Imagine this + VR.

Edited May 11, 2022 by NightmareFarm

[Boblee]

VR is already pulling a lot of strings and it's not yet fully exploited. Unreal Engine 5 will be a major blast together with VR. 

[NightmareFarm]

3 hours ago, Boblee said:

VR is already pulling a lot of strings and it's not yet fully exploited. Unreal Engine 5 will be a major blast together with VR. 

It's going to start getting hard to tell if i'm in a game or not with VR because the graphics are so realistic. Like if you look at the train demo and project mara it looks literally indistuinguishable from real life at a glance. I didn't think it would be this soon but it appears we have reached complete photorealism. I don't know how 10th gen can even improve graphically besides bumping up the resolution.

[Shagger]

With all due respect @NightmareFarm, I couldn't agree with you less. I actually think the level of visual improvement, the "leap" as you put it, get's less and less each time, especially considering the leap in the actual power of the hardware if anything gets wider each time. Not that those examples you put up aren't impressive, but if one actually looks at the whole history, I think that one will find the level of improvement does get less and less each time.

 

I'll start from the beginning and work my way up to show you what I mean.

 

Pong, 1972, 1st Gen

I know the Odyssey came out the same year, but that was really more of a device to let people use thier TV's as an accessory to play what where basically board games. Pong, I believe, was the first video game you could play on TV at home.

 

 

2nd gen 

The next step isn't straightforward to navigate and it is debatable, but I'll go for the Atari 2600, 1977

 

Combat

 

3rd Gen

Now to NES (8 bit), 1985

Mario Bros

 

4rth Gen

Then to SNES (16 Bit), 1991

 

Super Mario World

 

5th Gen

Then to the 32 Bit and N64 (1995-1996) (I'll use one shot from a PlayStation game and one from the N64)

 

Goldeneye, N64

 

Metal Gear Solid, PlayStation

 

6th Gen

The next example shows PlayStation 2, released 2000

 

Primal

 

 

7nth Gen

Sticking with PlayStation, I'll go for PS3, 2006

 

Heavenly Sword

 

8th Gen

Next, PS4 released 2013

 

...and one of my favourites, Horizon Zero Dawn

 

 

9nth Gen

And for the most recent of consoles, I'll go with the PS5 and an exclusive game to that console;

 

Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart

 

 

You see, I really do not see the level of improvement in graphics increase over time, I see the opposite. we're at the point where you could quadruple the amount of polygons in a 3d model and it would barley make a difference to how it looked. Obviously still images don't tell the whole story, like improvements on how games run, and that's why I'm actually glad the new generation of consoles seem to be more focused on improving the gameplay experience with reduced load times and higher, more stable frame rates rather than pure visual fidelity like they have been in the past. That's the right thing to do because I do feel graphics have hit something of a glass celling. We're at the point where putting more power into graphics is going to make less and less of a difference. The PS6 could have the power of 64 PS5's and would it really help the games look much better?

 

VR maybe a bit of a different story because VR, as we know it today, is still an emerging technology, so maybe there is more room to improve thier, but even there is it's only a matter of time before VR runs into the same glass ceiling, so I actually don't think so. VR games look good even by the highest standards already.

Edited May 12, 2022 by Shagger

[Reality vs Adventure]

It depends on the tv too. If you don't have 4K tv, then you can't see the full potential of 9th gen games. 4K and 8K tv's have a very limited range to see it's full clarity. The further you are from the tv, renders 4K and 8K useless. So you can play 8th gen on 4K and it might look better than 9th gen on basic HD TV. Might be the same for computer screens and graphic cards too. 

[Yaramaki]

VR isen't going to be next big thing as many people thought it was going to be. I keep saying it unless they start introducing headsets that are less a pain to use and are less expensive then it may have potential to become mainstrain, because let's face it your average gamer isen't going to pay a couple of hundred bucks for an accessory that they may use every once in a while.  Microsoft their hololens may be the best solution i've seen yet but apperently it's going to cost over 3500$ and you know who wants to spend that kind of money on a new piece of tech. 

Also how many VR only games are really worth playing and must buy. Don't get me wrong i've bought playstation Vr a few months after it launched and it's an exellent piece of technology but as it stands now i don't see any reasons why people should get into VR, let's hope a once in a generation Vr game comes along and changes that, only time will tell.

Right now on to the topic question, alsong microsoft and sony don't ditch the xbox one and ps4 and start focussing on their new hardware we are not going to see the full potential of next gen hardware. Because as it stands now my xbox one x runs the same games just as nice as my series x. I don't know about ps5 but i'm sure horizon forbidden west and gran turismo 7 run just as smoothly on a ps4 pro then on a ps5 console and for that surely sacrifices had to be made.

Since the 5th generation is brought up, these days the graphics i see them as a downgrade compared to the 4th gen, a lot of ps1/n64 games have just aged badly not only graphic wise but gameplay wise aswell not to mention the horrible camera angles most games had in that generation. 

If you look at streets of rage 2 and compare it with any 3d beat em you'll know what i mean, another example take street fighter 2 and compare it with 3d fighters from the 6th generation.

[Heatman]

7 minutes ago, Reality vs Adventure said:

It depends on the tv too. If you don't have 4K tv, then you can't see the full potential of 9th gen games. 4K and 8K tv's have a very limited range to see it's full clarity. The further you are from the tv, renders 4K and 8K useless. So you can play 8th gen on 4K and it might look better than 9th gen on basic HD TV. Might be the same for computer screens and graphic cards too. 

This is another good angle that needs to be put into consideration as well because the better the TV, the more incredible the graphics are going to be. It's why I'm using Samsung 55" Class RU7300 Curved Smart 4K UHD TV. 

[NightmareFarm]

1 hour ago, Shagger said:

With all due respect @NightmareFarm, I couldn't agree with you less. I actually think the level of visual improvement, the "leap" as you put it, get's less and less each time, especially considering the leap in the actual power of the hardware if anything gets wider each time. Not that those examples you put up aren't impressive, but if one actually looks at the whole history, I think that one will find the level of improvement does get less and less each time.

 

I'll start from the beginning and work my way up to show you what I mean.

 

Pong, 1972, 1st Gen

I know the Odyssey came out the same year, but that was really more of a device to let people use thier TV's as an accessory to play what where basically board games. Pong, I believe, was the first video game you could play on TV at home.

 

 

2nd gen 

The next step isn't straightforward to navigate and it is debatable, but I'll go for the Atari 2600, 1977

 

Combat

 

3rd Gen

Now to NES (8 bit), 1985

Mario Bros

 

4rth Gen

Then to SNES (16 Bit), 1991

 

Super Mario World

 

5th Gen

Then to the 32 Bit and N64 (1995-1996) (I'll use one shot from a PlayStation game and one from the N64)

 

Goldeneye, N64

 

Metal Gear Solid, PlayStation

 

6th Gen

The next example shows PlayStation 2, released 2000

 

Primal

 

 

7nth Gen

Sticking with PlayStation, I'll go for PS3, 2006

 

Heavenly Sword

 

8th Gen

Next, PS4 released 2013

 

...and one of my favourites, Horizon Zero Dawn

 

 

9nth Gen

And for the most recent of consoles, I'll go with the PS5 and and exclusive game to that console;

 

Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart

 

 

You see, I really do not see the level of improvement in graphics increase over time, I see the opposite. we're at the point where you could quadruple the amount of polygons in a 3d model and it would barley make a difference to how it looked. Obviously still images don't tell the whole story, like improvements on how games run, and that's why I'm actually glad the new generation of consoles seem to be more focused on improving the gameplay experience with reduced load times and higher, more stable frame rates rather than pure visual fidelity like they have been in the past. That's the right thing to do because I do feel graphics have hit something of a glass celling. We're at the point where putting more power into graphics is going to make less and less of a difference. The PS6 could have the power of 64 PS5's and would it really help the games look much better?

 

VR maybe a bit of a different story because VR, as we know it today, is still an emerging technology, so maybe there is more room to improve thier, but even there is it's only a matter of time before VR runs into the same glass ceiling, so I actually don't think so. VR games look good even by the highest standards already.

That game isn't a good example. It released 6 months after launch so it's not going to have graphics representative of the generation. And i've always thought it looked like it can be run on PS4. 

Now, the examples above each look indistinguishable from real life besides the matrix demo which is almost there but not entirely. 

This alone is bigger than any generational leap besides maybe(emphasis on maybe) 2D to 3D. Why? Becuase it fully bridges the gap towards photorealism or in other words LITERALLY looks like real life. Show this to 5 people.

Just the image. They will all say it's a photo of a train station. They won't be able to obviously tell it's a video game like in previous generations where no matter how graphically impressive the game is it still looks like a video game.

This is the true graphical extent of next gen but developers haven't tapped into it yet because there are virtually no next gen games out besides Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart, Returnal and Demon Souls. And on top of that UE5 hadn't released at their time of conception. 

I mean just look at the train station demo and project mara. Unless you stare at it and very very closely try to find faults it looks exactly like real life. Meanwhile 8th gen graphics already look dated and almost cartoony:

8th gen will only look less and less realistic with age like all previous generations since it isn't photorealistic. This will become much more obvious in about 5 years time. Meanwhile TRUE 9th gen graphics like the train station demo will not age since it is photorealistic. 

 

Edited May 12, 2022 by NightmareFarm

[NightmareFarm]

Im going with 1996-2001. You had FF7 come out in 1997(not 1996 but close enough and it is neccessary for the comparison) and FF10 come out in 2001 which looks like we jumped several generations graphically in the course of 5 years. MGS2 also released in 2001 which holds up incredibly well.

https://ibb.co/7Y13t5c

https://imgbb.com/Yc93jm3

https://ibb.co/SnYT8LH

https://ibb.co/k3HbP3c

https://imgbb.com/gSxt3Hn

[Shagger]

3 hours ago, NightmareFarm said:

Im going with 1996-2001. You had FF7 come out in 1997(not 1996 but close enough and it is neccessary for the comparison) and FF10 come out in 2001 which looks like we jumped several generations graphically in the course of 5 years. MGS2 also released in 2001 which holds up incredibly well.

https://ibb.co/7Y13t5c

https://imgbb.com/Yc93jm3

https://ibb.co/SnYT8LH

https://ibb.co/k3HbP3c

https://imgbb.com/gSxt3Hn

 

I've decided to merge this with this another thread you created because the subject matter is very similar and it has only been a month since this the first thread was created.

[Empire]

This was actually pretty good. I know that UE5 is quite a high-end product, but the NPCs in the game and some of the main characters, MetaHumans, are still recognizable as robotic or digitally generated. I would like to see more depth in that field. I've seen the MetaHuman technology in work, and man, does it look natural? This one here feels like its predecessor or something like that because the authentic MetaHuman appearance is more than realistic.

And another question on the side, is this game really coming out of the demo? Like a real game, not just a demo for the UE5? I would really like to replay the original trilogy of the Matrix in such an environment and game with the potential for future games after the trilogy end and makes its way slowly to the final establishment of the new human city. I know that I am not the only one craving for a good Matrix story-tell RPG of this calibre. Please don't make it an MMORPG. These days MMORPGs are a huge letdown, so RPG and single-player story-driven games are more likely to be enjoyed, especially in the world of the Matrix.