Why are game journslists bad at games?

[Ducksfan]

Well sometimes they are and sometimes they aren't just depending on who you're reading it from. But we all can agree that we can dominate 1v1 against some game journalists so it begs the question of why are game journalists bad at games? Let's take a look at some key features of this website that goes over it. Most of the time game journalists don't start off as game journalists they just want to be journalists for a tech company, newspaper, or any other type of news area but get an opportunity as a game journalist for a ton of money. We all love money and so they jump to become a game journalist because money is quite common nowadays so this is one of the main reasons why game journalists suck at games. They are also not interested in video games, so that also plays a big factor. If you want to read more then make sure to check out this article that goes more into depth.

 

Moderator Edit: Link Removed

Edited June 10, 2022 by Shagger
Removal of Promotional Link

[Justin11]

Not all are terrible, most of them are bad because, it isn't something of a passion to them. If they're passionate enough about the game they're covering in terms of news, commentary and story/writeup etc. They wouldn't be disappointing just as the title of your thread suggested. 

[Grungie]

When you're paid to play a bunch of games for review purposes, you don't really have a ton of time to "git gud" at the game they're playing.

[Shagger]

First off, @Ducksfan, welcome to VGR, but if you don't mind, we're going to share a cab and take a trip down real street. Nobody just comes onto a forum then immediately posts a fairly brazen topic and links to an article "they just found" from blogsite with such a suspiciously similar name to the screen name they have chosen. So the thought occurs that you have some sort of association with that website. A further thought occurs that it may in fact be your website. The rules on promotional posts on VGR are very clearly spelled out in our Forum Rules and Guidelines:

 

 

Because of this, I am removing the link to the website in question from your post, but I will keep the thread open and take no further action under the assumption that understand this and that you won't try to re-up that link.

 

I'm also going to move the topic to General Gaming as this isn't really a "news" topic. With or without that link this qualifies as an opinion piece rather than current affairs or news.

Edited June 10, 2022 by Shagger

[Shagger]

In answer to the actual topic, Some Game's journalists ae journalists first and gamers second, but I don't really feel that's that's the most most of the time, especially these days There is of course gamergate and controversy's like the Kyne and Lynch 2 and Driver 3 situations that shed light into flawed structure of games journalism by being too dependant on the cooperate game's industry itself for survival, but especially since gamergate I fel things have change a little. I see outlets, like IGN for example, being a lot less reserved and more prepared to bad behaviour from the industry in recent years.

 

As for a journalists gaming skill, I really don't think they need to be MGL to have a worthwhile opinion on a game. On the contrary, I actually believe it's better for journalists and reviewers especially to be closer to the ground as they an offer an option that is on the level of the typical gamer. They have to know what they are talking about, yes, but that doesn't mean mastering a game. There are exceptions, of course, where it is reasonable to have the journalist be on another lever like if they report on E-Sports or if they are putting out tech advice (Looking at YOU The Verge after that embarrassing PC Build Guide video). But overall I do feel that journalists being around the level of regular gamers is a good thing and I do not believe that most games journalists are worse than us. I've written a few reviews in my time (that can call be found on the forum), and I'm I'd never claim to be that good at game, but that doesn't mean I cant put together a respectable opinion.

[Empire]

Because theyre not actually gamers, theyre casuals at best. They only get into games journalism because they get rejected by serious journalism companies. They'll often talk and write about things that have nothing to do with gaming.

[Dannyjax]

I think that it's not going to be all of them that are going to be bad at gaming. There are still some of them that loves being a game journalist and they might have been involved with games way back. 

[Withywarlock]

  Fair warning to all, this is going to be a long (and somewhat bias) post, much like my first one about the games review process here. I doubt I can change anyone's minds, but I would hope my perspective provides some unique insights.

On 6/10/2022 at 2:27 AM, Ducksfan said:

Well sometimes they are and sometimes they aren't just depending on who you're reading it from. But we all can agree that we can dominate 1v1 against some game journalists

1. In terms of...?
2. Yes, of course we can. I won't lie, as a games reviewer myself, I'd struggle to review a lot of genres. I will say that many don't stay in their lane, but then - as you'll see below with Dean Takahashi - there may not be the best writer available to cover something.

On 6/10/2022 at 2:27 AM, Ducksfan said:

so it begs the question of why are game journalists bad at games?

Citation needed. I know people will point to Dean Takahashi's Cuphead attempts (as a reminder, he was not its reviewer and does not primarily play platformers) or Polygon's Doom First Impression, and they were indeed attrocious, but beyond that you don't have much evidence to tar even half of games journalism with the same brush.

That said, games journalism hasn't really ever had much in the way of integrity. The industry was very saavy to catch on to this early on: game magazines were nothing more than a front for marketers, and it took over a decade before you started seeing negative reviews that used scathing language because it wasn't just a puff piece. It wasn't until things like Jeff Gerstmann's firing from Gamespot over a negative Kane & Lynch review that the public started taking ethics in games journalism seriously. It's around that time that I'd say a lot of non-gaming stuff came in as print media was on its way out, and to compete game magazines (I use the word 'magazine' in the sense of a website too) had to fill up space with opinion editorials.

This isn't to say it should always stay this way just because "that's how it was." Obviously there'll always be room for improvement, and it should be improved upon... if it lasts, which I honestly doubt. I feel the next generation of games coverage will only make the same mistakes as the last because it's what's expected.

One final point for this particular question is one of the first posts I made on this forum, re Cyberpunk 2077 reviews and the review process. It talks about an ideal world, which games journalists don't - and cannot so long as it's as cutthroat as it is - live in.

On 6/10/2022 at 2:27 AM, Ducksfan said:

Let's take a look at some key features of this website that goes over it. Most of the time game journalists don't start off as game journalists they just want to be journalists for a tech company, newspaper, or any other type of news area but get an opportunity as a game journalist for a ton of money.

No, games journalists don't get a ton of money for their work. Freelancers usually have to build up a portfolio which they won't make any money on, and even then they may need to do a free trial (probation) before someone will buy an article. Since the blogger boom there's too many who do it for eXpOsUrE and it works, meaning the rest of us who want to be paid get told to blow off.

On 6/10/2022 at 2:27 AM, Ducksfan said:

We all love money and so they jump to become a game journalist because money is quite common nowadays so this is one of the main reasons why game journalists suck at games.

No it isn't. Games journalism's decline in quality is for the most part for the following reasons:

1. There's too many freelancers and too few in-house writers. [Redacted as it got too heated. My point is that it's simply cheaper for editors to write half-cocked reviews or get a freelancer to do it cheaply rather than pay an annual salary. This isn't always the case, thank goodness, but it's quite common especially the higher up the food chain you go.]
2. Not enough time. A lot of this is on developers/publishers/PR agencies who don't send review copies within a respectable amount of time. A lot of it is down to backlog (again, see the above about being understaffed), and editors not properly prioritising articles and reviews.
3. Filling. To say there's more games and delivering content, there's not a lot more to say about it. So we go back to what games journalism came from: dressing up advertisements for clicks. The cloak and dagger of PR does not help one iota, either.

On 6/10/2022 at 2:27 AM, Ducksfan said:

They are also not interested in video games, so that also plays a big factor.

Citation needed. I get the frustration at articles, writers and sites that home in one one disagreeable aspect of the game and harp on about it for the entire article, but again, to tar the entire industry with that same brush just doesn't help with discussion.

On 6/10/2022 at 2:27 AM, Ducksfan said:

If you want to read more then make sure to check out this article that goes more into depth.

I won't lie, I would like to have seen the article but I imagine it would only be as venomous as your first post here. It just seems like you've come to a games jouralism site's forum to vent. I would certainly hope that if you continue to post here, you ease into the place as I did.

In spite of all this, I would like to welcome you to VGR. Thanks for what has been cause for quite a hearty discussion so far.

Edited June 11, 2022 by Withywarlock

[NightmareFarm]

There paid to review them not to be good at them so it's going to attract lots of people who can't play decently to save their life and just want the money. 

 

Edited June 11, 2022 by NightmareFarm

[Grungie]

On 6/10/2022 at 5:53 AM, Shagger said:

In answer to the actual topic, Some Game's journalists ae journalists first and gamers second, but I don't really feel that's that's the most most of the time, especially these days There is of course gamergate and controversy's like the Kyne and Lynch 2 and Driver 3 situations that shed light into flawed structure of games journalism by being too dependant on the cooperate game's industry itself for survival, but especially since gamergate I fel things have change a little. I see outlets, like IGN for example, being a lot less reserved and more prepared to bad behaviour from the industry in recent years.

 

As for a journalists gaming skill, I really don't think they need to be MGL to have a worthwhile opinion on a game. On the contrary, I actually believe it's better for journalists and reviewers especially to be closer to the ground as they an offer an option that is on the level of the typical gamer. They have to know what they are talking about, yes, but that doesn't mean mastering a game. There are exceptions, of course, where it is reasonable to have the journalist be on another lever like if they report on E-Sports or if they are putting out tech advice (Looking at YOU The Verge after that embarrassing PC Build Guide video). But overall I do feel that journalists being around the level of regular gamers is a good thing and I do not believe that most games journalists are worse than us. I've written a few reviews in my time (that can call be found on the forum), and I'm I'd never claim to be that good at game, but that doesn't mean I cant put together a respectable opinion.

That’s an interesting take that I’ve never thought of. That’s kind of what the rift in the film and music review industry has with the average consumer. In those industries, the reviewers tend to have watched/listened to several times more films or albums than the average individual, so their tastes and opinions will differ wildly from the average consumer, who only consumes a mere fraction of the content. So a film/album that’s overdone/cliche to a critic could be new and innovative for the average consumer. That’s where you end up with these films and albums having sales figures that don’t match the opinions of the reviewers.

[Clasher]

Interestingly, journalism as a whole relies on the cooperate world and only feeds the public what the organization want them to know about a situation or in this case the game. @Shagger made some valid points, some game journalist (because it would also be very wrong to say all journalist) don't usually take time to experience the said game for themselves before proceeding to write an article , a review or give a report about it. They just source out information for the cooperate game industries or whatever they could lay their hands on online.

In my opinion that's wrong journalism and sometimes the public is misled because of incorrect information or too sugar coated reviews about a particular game.

[Yaramaki]

I feel like to be a videogame journalist you atleast have to have some passion for gaming, because if you don't then what the fuck are you doing writing about something you have zero interest in. 

The thing people always overlook is that a lot of smaller videogame websites are run by people who are passionate about video games and just want to write about it, they aren't in it for the money, most websites are already happy they got review codes from companies and that's that and you know i trust those people their oppinions more then the so called "pro reviewer".

I've written articles for various websites over the years, sure most were collector based and whatnot but i had a lot of fun creating these articles. Hell i even had some of my articles published in retrogamer magazine over the years. Mostly their minority report which was about japanese obscure games because that's what i'm all about for the most part. I never got a dime for any of it and you know there are a lot of simulair people like me who just want to write about their favourite videogames and don't care about money at all. 

This leads me to the next thing when i buy a video game book, you can clearly tell if it's written by a journalist or if it's a fan project, because the fan project is a project of many years and put together with love and care while the former is just written rushed most of the times because of deadlines they have to meet.

Edited June 12, 2022 by Yaramaki

[Withywarlock]

I'll begin by saying I apologise if this sounds like I'm talking down to you, I don't want to insult anyone's intelligence when I get worked up over a subject I'm passionate and interested in shortly. It's a very long post, and this is about the closest I get to discussion/debate or just plain response on forums these days.

3 hours ago, Yaramaki said:

I feel like to be a videogame journalist you atleast have to have some passion for gaming, because if you don't then what the fuck are you doing writing about something you have zero interest in. 

I deem passion and interest to be two different things. People have a passion to write and that's the job description the recruiting manager/editor-in-chief have written up for the writer's contract; the interest in video games are secondary if it gets clicks. If you're passionate about and interested in both, more power to you.

Take my posts on this forum for example; my past ~12 months have been cynical drivel most of the time because I'm passionate about posting, but I'm not really that interested in being involved in the topic. See also a lot of the spam users have complained about: people want to speak, but aren't interested in talking. This is the most animated I've been in about a year.

3 hours ago, Yaramaki said:

The thing people always overlook is that a lot of smaller videogame websites are run by people who are passionate about video games and just want to write about it, they aren't in it for the money,

I wholeheartedly agree, at least that's how things are to begin with and bless the hearts of those who still view it like that. Mark Twain is quoted as having said "find a job you enjoy doing, and you'll never have to work a day in your life."

3 hours ago, Yaramaki said:

most websites are already happy they got review codes from companies and that's that and you know i trust those people their oppinions more then the so called "pro reviewer".

I'm the opposite more often than not. I remember getting my first review codes and being giddy over closed beta access, which unfortunately interfered with my ability to give as neutral a review as possible. Most "pro reviewer" outlets have review guidelines and ethics policies, and are held to a higher standard when it comes to disclosure. Granted, I'd take Johnny Forumgoer's review of Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain over anyone who went to the Konamitz Review Camp, having their work closely monitored by the developers and publisher so they didn't step out of line.

That said, variety is the spice of life. Find reviewers whose tastes align with yours, whose ethical and review policies are open and consistent, and whose relationships with developers and publishers is transparent and well-documented (ie. interviews, press events, friendship).

I should also point out I only consider myself a "pro" in the sense that it is my profession; evidently my writing quality and manner leave something to be desired. 😅

3 hours ago, Yaramaki said:

I've written articles for various websites over the years, sure most were collector based and whatnot but i had a lot of fun creating these articles. Hell i even had some of my articles published in retrogamer magazine over the years.

That's fascinating! I'd love to give them a read if you're able to share the links (if that's permitted in the rules, see Shagger's post above, even if it's just in DMs).

3 hours ago, Yaramaki said:

This leads me to the next thing when i buy a video game book, you can clearly tell if it's written by a journalist or if it's a fan project, because the fan project is a project of many years and put together with love and care while the former is just written rushed most of the times because of deadlines they have to meet.

I disagree. A lot of fan projects likely don't have the pull, resources or know-how to get interviews and inside information, and go off their own knowledge, community boards and wikis. Jason Schrier's Blood, Sweat and Pixels is a phenominal read, I dare say one of the best video game books that isn't by a developer. The CRPG Book on the other hand is a decent read but shouldn't really be considered essential reading for RPG fans.

This takes us about around to that discussion of passion and interest. Anyone can have an interest in the Hell's Angels, but it took someone as gonzo as Hunter S. Thompson to go with them risking life and limb (at the end of his book being severely beaten and bloodied) to give a first-hand account of the last of the outlaws.

All of that said, I wish pros like myself were only half as good as Thompson getting information and concrete answers from the developers. It's like drawing blood out of a stone, and I commend fans especially who can get that information despite that lack of resources.

Edited June 12, 2022 by Withywarlock

[Yaramaki]

59 minutes ago, Withywarlock said:

I'll begin by saying I apologise if this sounds like I'm talking down to you, I don't want to insult anyone's intelligence when I get worked up over a subject I'm passionate and interested in shortly. It's a very long post, and this is about the closest I get to discussion/debate or just plain response on forums these days.

I deem passion and interest to be two different things. People have a passion to write and that's the job description the recruiting manager/editor-in-chief have written up for the writer's contract; the interest in video games are secondary if it gets clicks. If you're passionate about and interested in both, more power to you.

Take my posts on this forum for example; my past ~12 months have been cynical drivel most of the time because I'm passionate about posting, but I'm not really that interested in being involved in the topic. See also a lot of the spam users have complained about: people want to speak, but aren't interested in talking. This is the most animated I've been in about a year.

I wholeheartedly agree, at least that's how things are to begin with and bless the hearts of those who still view it like that. Mark Twain is quoted as having said "find a job you enjoy doing, and you'll never have to work a day in your life."

I'm the opposite more often than not. I remember getting my first review codes and being giddy over closed beta access, which unfortunately interfered with my ability to give as neutral a review as possible. Most "pro reviewer" outlets have review guidelines and ethics policies, and are held to a higher standard when it comes to disclosure. Granted, I'd take Johnny Forumgoer's review of Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain over anyone who went to the Konamitz Review Camp, having their work closely monitored by the developers and publisher so they didn't step out of line.

That said, variety is the spice of life. Find reviewers whose tastes align with yours, whose ethical and review policies are open and consistent, and whose relationships with developers and publishers is transparent and well-documented (ie. interviews, press events, friendship).

I should also point out I only consider myself a "pro" in the sense that it is my profession; evidently my writing quality and manner leave something to be desired. 😅

That's fascinating! I'd love to give them a read if you're able to share the links (if that's permitted in the rules, see Shagger's post above, even if it's just in DMs).

I disagree. A lot of fan projects likely don't have the pull, resources or know-how to get interviews and inside information, and go off their own knowledge, community boards and wikis. Jason Schrier's Blood, Sweat and Pixels is a phenominal read, I dare say one of the best video game books that isn't by a developer. The CRPG Book on the other hand is a decent read but shouldn't really be considered essential reading for RPG fans.

This takes us about around to that discussion of passion and interest. Anyone can have an interest in the Hell's Angels, but it took someone as gonzo as Hunter S. Thompson to go with them risking life and limb (at the end of his book being severely beaten and bloodied) to give a first-hand account of the last of the outlaws.

All of that said, I wish pros like myself were only half as good as Thompson getting information and concrete answers from the developers. It's like drawing blood out of a stone, and I commend fans especially who can get that information despite that lack of resources.

I was going to ask sooner or later if you did something in writing, because damn your writing is fantastic just based on your posts alone. Bet you can write about something completly boring and make it an interest read. 

Also diden't want to insult so called paid or pro reviewers, i mean it's their job to inform wheter a game is good or not not mine. Giving deadlines and most likely having to rush trough a game for the sake of reviewing and  then writing  a review that is 2 pages long for let's say a 50 hour game it's not something everybody can do atleast i coulden't do that. Like with anything in life some journalist or better in their craft then other journalist.

Now that i know you're a journalist if you don't mind asking me a few questions :

One thing i always wondered woulden't it be better for reviewers/websites to just drop the overall scores they give to a game. What's the difference between a 76 or 80 anyway. You could absolutly hate the game you are reviewing but overall the game is good what score do you give, how do you go about it. Like say you have to review a sports game and you don't give a crap about sports in general how do you go about, do you put your principles aside and review the game like it is or just give it bad review.

Let's say you have to write an article about the fallout series and you have two pages to do it. What would you include to make it an interesting read?

Quote

A lot of fan projects likely don't have the pull, resources or know-how to get interviews and inside information, and go off their own knowledge, community boards and wikis. Jason Schrier's Blood, Sweat and Pixels is a phenominal read, I dare say one of the best video game books that isn't by a developer. The CRPG Book on the other hand is a decent read but shouldn't really be considered essential reading for RPG fans.

My taste in video game books is probably different then yours, where mine is more video game collector based and from what i gathered you are more into the industry in itself but do correct me if i'm wrong. Usually a lot of collector based books are headed by a games journalist and start out as their own fan project so it's all the same anyway. I have the crpg book from what i remember it's just review after review with a few pictures of the games, i tought it was decent and it's well put together but as you stated it's not a must own, it's great as an introduction to the genre though.

I'll take you up on Jason Schrier's Blood, Sweat and Pixels it's only a little over 15 euros so i'll go and grab it now. If you have other video game book recommendations i'd love to hear as it never hurts to learn a thing or two about the industry.

[Dannyjax]

On 6/10/2022 at 2:39 AM, Grungie said:

When you're paid to play a bunch of games for review purposes, you don't really have a ton of time to "git gud" at the game they're playing.

It takes a way the commitment one have in playing such kind of games because the only motivation option there is the money and once that's removed, it's over for the game.