Thoughts on silent protagonists?

[Yaramaki]

On 8/19/2022 at 7:11 PM, Withywarlock said:

I've already said enough times this week how much 'lazy' as an argument irritates me, but putting that aside for the moment, what's the problem with an unvoiced character? Indeed, what would a voiced protagonist bring to either of those games, especially with dialogue like "I like shorts; they're easy and comfortable to wear" or whatever that line from the first game was? Do the stories suffer from not having a voiced characters responding to things that are already happening in the environment? In either the case of The Legend of Zelda I can't think of anything the characters would have of interest to say to NPCs; it's more the world and supporting cast that do all the legwork in that regard.

See that's my thinking for Pokémon and The Legend of Zelda: the protagonists, a blank block of tofu, absorbs the flavour of the world. On their own you're right, they're not very interesting but they're more vehicles for getting you through the interesting bits of the game.

Probably should follow up on this and say Pokémon games could do with full voice acting atleast for the npc's not doing that anno 2022 is just lame, what do they have to lose with giving that npc a voice. Not implementing any voice acting at all in what is called the first true pokemon rpg for the big screen is just pure lazyness. But then again i'm probably not the target audience for pokemon games. Anyway you would guess that a multimillion franchise like pokemon would atleast have voice acting and you know the pokemon company are known to take the easy way out atleast in my oppinion. I'm not saying the main character should have a voice or anything, just the npc's characters as it would add so much more to the pokemon games.

Quote

I appreciate it may be too early to divert attentions to this idea, but what do we think of the Banjo-Kazooie school of voice... acting? That's to say characters making noise, but the written dialogue that still needs to be read to be understood. Do people want to actually listen to spoken words, or do they just want to hear something when they read subtitles?

Did you ever try out Biomutant the main character is also silent and the npc's reminds me of the banjo-kazooie mumbling but 10 times worse because the npc's just won't shut up and then you have that damn narrator translating what they just said and won't shut up and feels the need to talk all the time but Overall it's quite a good game that suprised me in a positive way.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Yaramaki

[Withywarlock]

41 minutes ago, Yaramaki said:

what do they have to lose with giving that npc a voice.

Practically speaking? Money hired to pay voice actors and time to code in those voice lines. Nintendo can afford it, but what do they gain by spending that money and effort?

Otherwise in terms of sentiment, I like to imagine the characters' voices myself in the same way I prefer a novel to an audiobook/film adaptation's idea of how the character should look or sound. Nine times out of ten whatever voice the devs had in mind will be inferior to the one I would have liked, but then in reality would I really care about the chosen voice actor? Right now I'm just discussing this in a vacuum, which then begs the question, what gain is there if I'm not going to notice it all that much in-game?

The option is always good though, especially if a company like Nintendo can afford it.

48 minutes ago, Yaramaki said:

But then again i'm probably not the target audience for pokemon games.

Nor am I. If Nintendo did add voices to their characters even if solely to spite me I wouldn't care. Well, I would be flattered because they think I'm worth spiting.

53 minutes ago, Yaramaki said:

Anyway you would guess that a multimillion franchise like pokemon would atleast have voice acting and you know the pokemon company are known to take the easy way out atleast in my oppinion. I'm not saying the main character should have a voice or anything, just the npc's characters as it would add so much more to the pokemon games.

I can believe they can afford it, absolutely, I just don't see the "so much more" it would add, least of all to a Pokémon game. I find its story is better told through its spectacle: the exotic lands you come across, the quirky items you'll use and the increasingly powerful Pokémon you challenge yourself to capture.

55 minutes ago, Yaramaki said:

Did you ever try out Biomutant the main character is also silent and the npc's reminds me of the banjo-kazooie mumbling but 10 times worse because the npc's just won't shut up and then you have that damn narrator translating what they just said and won't shut up and feels the need to talk all the time but Overall it's quite a good game that suprised me in a positive way.

I can't say I have played it, but that seems excessive. I don't mind the mumbling when I have the option to skip through it and the dialogue is either meaningful or kept to a minimum (Super Lucky's Tale is awful for this, especially when doing the no-hit achievements.)

If the main character's silent I hardly see much point in the NPCs having so much work put in, unless they have dialogue choices that match the quality of those of Obsidian's games. Banjo & Kazooie had clever banter with NPCs, which Yooka-Laylee tried and wasn't quite as good with but you have to expect some hits and misses with these things.

[Heatman]

18 hours ago, Grungie said:

I’ve been playing JRPG’s and Zelda for years, so it never really bothered me.

I can't wait for what they are going to do with Zelda Breath of the Wild 2. There's a big possibility there's going to be another silent protagonist in the game or they might decide to remove it completely. 

What do you think? 

[runswithspatulas]

On 8/19/2022 at 9:20 AM, Shagger said:

 

I thought it would be fairly self explanatory, but @NightmareFarm is referring to are games with protagonists (The main character(s), usually the character(s) you play as) who don't speak. Doom and GTA3 quickly come to mind as examples. Games such as Fallout 3 or Skyrim the protagonists are not voiced, but they do have dialogue, so that's not the same thing.

 

It's not something that is very common now, but I'm not really a fan of the idea either. Just using the two examples I came up with already, in Doom it's OK because what few expressions the character does have to make are done successfully through action and gesture, so that works, but didn't realise how big of a problem this was in GTA 3 until I played Vice city. It can make understanding and relating to the characters actions and what they're going through much more difficult, especially if the game is not an RPG where you only control the character's actions in gameplay rather than thier role in the story. So games like Dragon's Dogma and Kingdoms of Amalur don't suffer much because your characters place in the role play well established through your actions, but I do believe the protagonist's vague and limited dialogue that lacked personality didn't do those RPGs any favours. Going back to Fallout, especially the earlier Fallout games, you see the difference it makes.

"Skyrim the protagonists are not voiced, but they do have dialogue"

what does that mean? do you have an example in skyrim?

[Shagger]

13 hours ago, runswithspatulas said:

"Skyrim the protagonists are not voiced, but they do have dialogue"

what does that mean? do you have an example in skyrim?

 

I'll use this video clip to show you what I mean.

 

 

 

As the player in control of the protagonist interacts with an NPC (in this case Serana), you see various options appear to select as things to say. When you select them, the NPC responds with whatever dialogue they say in that moment. Those options you select are the protagonist's dialogue in the game. It's not voiced, but it is expressions, questions and instructions coming from the protagonist directed at the NPC. This is what I mean when I talk about a protagonist having dialogue, but not voiced. In a game where all the NPCs are voiced when the protagonist is not might sound like a weird or even bad idea, but it can work, especially in an RPG. This is what I was talking about earlier in the thread how reading the protagonist's dialogue and letting yourself hear the voice you want to hear say the words as apposed to a voice actor can actually enhance the role play experience, at least for me.

Edited August 23, 2022 by Shagger

[runswithspatulas]

6 hours ago, Shagger said:

 

I'll use this video clip to show you what I mean.

 

 

 

As the player in control of the protagonist interacts with an NPC (in this case Serana), you see various options appear to select as things to say. When you select them, the NPC responds with whatever dialogue the say in that moment. Those options you select are the protagonist's dialogue in the game. It's not voiced, but it is expressions, questions and instructions coming from the protagonist directed at the NPC. This is what I mean when I talk about a protagonist having dialogue, but not voiced. In a game where all the NPCs are voiced when the protagonist is might sound like a weird or even bad idea, but it can work, especially in an RPG. This is what I was talking about earlier in the thread how reading the protagonist's dialogue and letting yourself hear the voice you want to here say the words as apposed to a voice actor can actually enhance the role play experience, at least for me.

oh ok i gotcha

[m76]

The only story driven game where this worked was the original Half Life. And games that have no dialogue period like doom or unreal.

The only valid reason to make a silent protagonist in a story driven game is if the character is actually mute.

Having lines that are not voiced is somewhat better, but still feels weird to me when only the NPCs are voiced. It's not a game breaking issue, but I prefer fully voiced characters.

Edited August 23, 2022 by m76

[runswithspatulas]

as long as i'm given an option for some sort of communication voiced or otherwise i guess it doesn't bother me.

[Tonberry]

I like it when the game lends itself to the idea of going into the character’s shoes like an avatar. To me, it can become more immersive, but also because I’m not a big fan of voice acting in most RPGs since it often feels amateurish.

I do like when you’re offered various dialogue options (like in Persona for example) to further flesh out your own idea of the character you’re playing.

[Empire]

It depends on the game. In a game that's more gameplay than story and where there isn't too much focus on dialogues I don't mind it at all.

Skyrim's approach is - altough it takes getting used to - still bearable for a game with lots of story because your character still 'talks', it's just not voiced.

Other times it's just hilariously bad like in the newer FarCry's where you have constant dialogue with lots of story but your character is completely silent. Everyone talks in a way that doesn't require a reply from you which is just off and not how conversations work. It's like every npc in the game knows that guy who never talks a word but does everything you ask him to do without questions.

[Heatman]

10 hours ago, Empire said:

 

Other times it's just hilariously bad like in the newer FarCry's where you have constant dialogue with lots of story but your character is completely silent. Everyone talks in a way that doesn't require a reply from you which is just off and not how conversations work. It's like every npc in the game knows that guy who never talks a word but does everything you ask him to do without questions.

It felt as if the developers didn't know exactly what do do with character's design in terms of being voiced or not. I really couldn't understand that because I was very much confused what they were trying to achieve with that kind of set up. 

[Clasher]

On 8/20/2022 at 6:45 PM, Grungie said:

I’ve been playing JRPG’s and Zelda for years, so it never really bothered me.

Zelda was one of those such games that came with a silent protagonists and you wouldn't even feel like there is something missing in it at all.

[Justin11]

I don't really vibe with silent protagonists and I can't even mention anyone I have played a video game as.

I would rather want me protagonists to say a few things if not all the time atleast sometime.

[Scorpion]

I totally understand your perspective. Silent protagonists often lack depth, making it hard to connect with the story and invest emotionally.