Horizon Forbidden West "Burning Shores" DLC Announced, But There's a Problem...

[Shagger]

... It's only for PS5!

 

Burning Shores will be set in the ruins of Los Angeles in what has become a volcanic landscape (A strange similarity to the Frozen Wilds DLC form Zero Dawn that was set at Yellowstone.). As you can see in the trailer, it looks promising;

 

 

And it looks as if we'll see a functioning Horas class titan/ Metal Devil for the first time. The DLC exantion will launch on April 19nth 2023. It's cool, but why is it PS5 only? It's not like I expected Sony to make exclusive games for both PS4 and PS5 forever, but if the original game runs on PS4, why deny PS4 users the chance to play this? The Frozen Wilds was one of the best expansions I've ever played and was so looking forward to an expansion for Forbidden West to then have my hopes crushed like this as I don't have a PS5 yet is really disappointing.

Edited December 9, 2022 by Shagger

[Empire]

So, I wonder if this will be its own sperate thing, or if it'll be like Frozen Wilds for Zero Dawn and added into Forbidden West itself. You clearly need a flying mount to get there, so it's not exactly like Frozen Wilds where you could go to that point of the map at any time once you got past all the Nora stuff.

[Crazycrab]

16 hours ago, Shagger said:

... It's only for PS5!

 

Wow...  That is REALLY fucking disappointing.  I loved the game, I wanna play the DLC and I'm happy to pay for it...  But I gotta either buy a PS5 or wait two years or whatever for a complete edition to come out on PC in order to do it!  This is bullshit, if the base game works on PS4 then why can't the DLC?  Fuck you Sony!

[Moonface]

Not a problem at all if you ask me. I already disliked that this game was cross-gen because Guerilla had been saying that ideas they had for Zero Dawn weren't possible with the PS4 but were possible on PS5, and then the second Forbidden West was announced as cross-gen I knew that the ideas they had been unable to do were probably not going to end up happening in that game. Assuming that the ideas didn't get to be done in that game (I've not played it and don't wish to spoil myself on it) then hopefully that means the ideas finally get to show up here, and if ditching PS4 is what it takes then good.

[Shagger]

20 hours ago, Moonface said:

Not a problem at all if you ask me. I already disliked that this game was cross-gen because Guerilla had been saying that ideas they had for Zero Dawn weren't possible with the PS4 but were possible on PS5, and then the second Forbidden West was announced as cross-gen I knew that the ideas they had been unable to do were probably not going to end up happening in that game. Assuming that the ideas didn't get to be done in that game (I've not played it and don't wish to spoil myself on it) then hopefully that means the ideas finally get to show up here, and if ditching PS4 is what it takes then good.

 

I have played them both up to earning the platinum trophies. The load times would be pretty much instant on PS5 and the PS5 version would make use the console's indigenous control features through the dual sense controller and obviously the PS4 version would not, but there is nothing in the game that needed the PS5 to work. The technology that actually drives the software is more powerful in the PS5 allowing superior performance, but the architecture is the basically the same. The game would obviously does not run as well on PS4, but it does would run, there is no technical excuse. They got the game to run on PS4 with some compromise, no reason they can't get the DLC expansion to run on PS4 as well. Sony are doing this to ship more PS5's, it's that simple. This was business decision, not a technical one.

 

That is why I hate this decision. If Forbidden West had only been on PS5 only to begin with, this wouldn't bother me even though I don't own a PS5 yet. Like I said in the OP, I don't expect Sony to keep making 1st party games for the PS4 forever, but if they do make games for PS4 it is fair to expect them to be supported. This is, quite frankly, an outrage.

Edited December 13, 2022 by Shagger

[Crazycrab]

18 minutes ago, Moonface said:

Not a problem at all if you ask me. I already disliked that this game was cross-gen because Guerilla had been saying that ideas they had for Zero Dawn weren't possible with the PS4 but were possible on PS5, and then the second Forbidden West was announced as cross-gen I knew that the ideas they had been unable to do were probably not going to end up happening in that game. Assuming that the ideas didn't get to be done in that game (I've not played it and don't wish to spoil myself on it) then hopefully that means the ideas finally get to show up here, and if ditching PS4 is what it takes then good.

 

I'd love to see a quote on that because as far as I know, Guerrilla's Decima engine was developed from the ground up for PS4 and Horizon Zero Dawn.  Killzone Shadow Fall was the first game to be released that used it, but that was more of a test for Guerrilla and it was PS4 release title.  So this idea that they had to shelf certain idea's for Horizon Zero Dawn on PS4 with a new engine they were developing when the PS3 was still the current system is absolutely ridiculous.  They had no idea what the hardware on PS5 would be like back then.

 

The only "idea" that they might referring to here is the moving "Metal Devil" Horus Titan.  To be fair, I could see something as big and complicated as that needing a significant amount of computational power in order to animate in engine, but I'm not convinced it can't work on PS4.  I know that the underwater sections the PS4 version of Forbidden West are compromised with less fauna and so on, but it works.  I'm sure that they can make a cut here and there for a Burning Shores release on PS4.

 

This is all marketing speak to push people onto next gen if you ask me.  PS5's are still hard to find and in the UK where I live many people are having choose between heating and eating because of an on going financial crisis.  I have never heard of as cross gen game where a story expansion was released one version but not the other.

[Moonface]

22 hours ago, Crazycrab said:

I'd love to see a quote on that because as far as I know, Guerrilla's Decima engine was developed from the ground up for PS4 and Horizon Zero Dawn.  Killzone Shadow Fall was the first game to be released that used it, but that was more of a test for Guerrilla and it was PS4 release title.  So this idea that they had to shelf certain idea's for Horizon Zero Dawn on PS4 with a new engine they were developing when the PS3 was still the current system is absolutely ridiculous.  They had no idea what the hardware on PS5 would be like back then.

I tried my best to find a source but failed to do so, but my belief was that at some point Guerilla said flying mounts were cut from Zero Dawn due to limitations with the PS4, and because of this expansions trailer showcasing a flying mount I was under the belief that it was PS5 exclusive to allow that feature to finally be possible. However, in my attempts of finding said source I found out that apparently Forbidden West has flying mounts, so I guess if there was a limit for it on PS4 in ZD a solution was found.

Since something that was a notable cut in ZD that had been attributed to the PS4 managed to end up in FW on PS4, I don't know now what this expansion would have that isn't possible on PS4. My earlier post was written with the belief that gameplay features such as flying mounts had been impossible because of the PS4's limits and that that had been carried over into FW due to being a cross-gen game, but I've since learned that was not the case, so I want to retract my comment of being glad that ideas that weren't originally possible might now be with the expansion being PS5 only since it turns out what I was thinking of are already part of FW.

[Shagger]

39 minutes ago, Moonface said:

I tried my best to find a source but failed to do so, but my belief was that at some point Guerilla said flying mounts were cut from Zero Dawn due to limitations with the PS4, and because of this expansions trailer showcasing a flying mount I was under the belief that it was PS5 exclusive to allow that feature to finally be possible. However, in my attempts of finding said source I found out that apparently Forbidden West has flying mounts, so I guess if there was a limit for it on PS4 in ZD a solution was found.

Since something that was a notable cut in ZD that had been attributed to the PS4 managed to end up in FW on PS4, I don't know now what this expansion would have that isn't possible on PS4. My earlier post was written with the belief that gameplay features such as flying mounts had been impossible because of the PS4's limits and that that had been carried over into FW due to being a cross-gen game, but I've since learned that was not the case, so I want to retract my comment of being glad that ideas that weren't originally possible might now be with the expansion being PS5 only since it turns out what I was thinking of are already part of FW.

 

I did find an article from ScreenRant that contains a very vague "explanation" from Guerrilla about why they are only bringing this to PS5. From the article:

 

 "To achieve this grand vision technically and creatively, we've made the difficult decision to focus all our efforts on making an incredible experience exclusive to the PlayStation 5 console."

 

It'll come as no surprise I'm sure that I don't believe a word of it, and I never will until we get specifics of why they couldn't bring this to PS4.

[Moonface]

I wonder if sales might have anything to do with it. I'm curious to see how FW sold on PS4 compared to PS5 and whether maybe the sales were higher on PS5 to the point Sony/Guerrilla don't think it's worth bringing this expansion to both platforms. It's certainly something I could see having more weight behind it as a reason if nothing in the expansion ends up coming across as something not possible on PS4. Especially now that I know things the developers said weren't possible before on PS4 with ZD ended up happening in FW on PS4.

[Shagger]

1 hour ago, Moonface said:

I wonder if sales might have anything to do with it. I'm curious to see how FW sold on PS4 compared to PS5 and whether maybe the sales were higher on PS5 to the point Sony/Guerrilla don't think it's worth bringing this expansion to both platforms. It's certainly something I could see having more weight behind it as a reason if nothing in the expansion ends up coming across as something not possible on PS4. Especially now that I know things the developers said weren't possible before on PS4 with ZD ended up happening in FW on PS4.

 

I'm struggling to find up to date stats on Horizon Forbidden West sales,  but I'll guess the PS4 version has sold more simply because the install base is much larger on PS4 right now. By all means, if you find good stats please bring them to the thread. Either, HFW has obviously sold well enough on PS5 that the making the DLC exclusive to that platform will be profitable, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it.

[Moonface]

Sony hasn't released any sales records for HFW yet; the most we know is that HZD reached 20 million sales in November 2021, but no distinction was made for how those sales were spread across PS4 and PC (although PS4 is obviously going to be higher). I also would expect PS4 sales to be higher for HFW anyway, because the game is $10 cheaper on PS4 compared to PS5 and the upgrade to PS5 is free, so even those with a PS5 may have purchased a PS4 copy just to save money. HFW did have the PS5 bundle though and given how hard it is to get one of those consoles I wonder how many people just bought that bundle purely for the console without caring for the game.

Considering the upgrade from PS4 to PS5 is free for HFW, there could be a chance Sony is trying to push people over to PS5 by putting stuff like this DLC exclusively on the platform, since nothing would dissuade someone from playing the game on a PS5 if/when they get one due to no payment needed for the version upgrade.

Regardless of sales, I think it's only going to come down to either Sony wanting to encourage people to move over to PS5, or this DLC genuinely has something that can't be achieved on PS4. I found this article that describes how HFW had to compromise in places to run on PS4, and how patches after release were done to improve the PS5 version, so maybe it's just that the developers don't want to have to try and work around the limits of the PS4 any longer, especially when it seems to have resulted in the PS5 version having to receive improvements post-release because of the time spent on the PS4 version: https://screenrant.com/horizon-forbidden-west-burning-shores-dlc-ps5-exclusive/

[Shagger]

This DLC has been out now for a couple of days and whilst it has been received well by critics, it is getting review bombed on Metacritic for the DUMBEST reason. And no, it's not because the DLC is PS5 only, even though that is both a common and legitimate complaint. Because this is a spoiler, I'm warning you now and will scroll down a bit before saying it, so if you don't want to know, click away now.

 

Spoiler Alert

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

... It's because Aloy acquires a female love interest. Full story from Push Square. Here's a link to the Metacritic Page for Burning Shores if you want to check it out.

Yes, Aloy now has a possible and entirely optional female love interest for the game, and as we've sadly come to expect, here comes the bigots. Why is it in 2023 gamers keep doing this? This is frustrating because we know most gamers aren't like this. Most of us, even amongst those of us that are cisgender male aren't bothered by this sort of thing because we're secure in who are and can't see inclusion as threat. Let's go through the inevitable excuses that will come to justly this one buy one, because we these man-babies have no imagination:

 

1. It's pandering to a gay agenda! There is no social/political agenda, gay people want nothing but to live thier lives in a way that doesn't hurt you. Inclusion is nothing more than a reflection of reality, a realty that most of us aren't threatened by. If you are threatened by that reality that wishes you no harm, then that's on you.
2. They're trying to indoctrinate people into being gay! There is no indoctrination. How the f**k would that even work through a video game? Just because these man-babies are stupid, impressionable and prone to manipulation doesn't make the rest of us as easily sculpted.
3. There're stifling creative freedom in exchange for pandering! Regardless of why LGBTQ+ themes in games, movies, TV shows or whatever are included, that IS thier creators creative freedom. I don't see a game developer's choice to have thier game star Stg-Jack-Awesome-Straight-White-Man-Penis as any less of a free creative choice than choosing to have a game star a character on the spectrum. Aloy didn't need to gay (and if fact, doesn't, like I said the lesbian romance is entirely optional), that's true and that is kind of the point I'm bringing, it's barley even a factor. It's still the same character. The gameplay and story quality of the DLC is not affected by this, so only an obsessive hatred of LGBTQ+ people would bring this kind stuff out of people over something this trivial. The only reason you would get upset over this is if you are a bigot, simple as that and it's pathetic.
4. Aloy was never gay! This next point is just my opinion, but I feel Aloy did show signs of being gay as far back as the very first game. She never took kindly to attention from males, even the good guys like Avad and Errand, and just got along much better with woman. And then there was Petra, she and Aloy basically flited outrageously to almost rom-com level of entertainment. I remember having a discussion with somebody on discord a couple of years back contemplating the possibility that Aloy was gay before the second game came out (No pun intended) based on the way she interacted with people. It sort of ended with a agreement that it was possible, but more importantly "unexplored" area of her character. It could just as easily lead to her being straight, but ultimately a non factor. When the second game came out, the case for Aloy being gay, if anything, strengthened. It was revealed Elisabet Sobeck was in a relationship with a woman, and Aloy is of course genetically identical to her (Another reason one can't be "indoctrinated" into being gay, it's something you're born with).

Whatever though, it doesn't matter, I'm not trying to convince anyone whether Aloy is or isn't gay, just pointing out that it always on the cards. And if you don't believe she is or just don't want to believe she is, than that's fine. However, I feel compelled to help you steer a course away from the path anger on this issue. All you just have to do is follow my two step program;


 

Step 1: Choose one of the options on the right.







Step 2: Grow up.

Edited June 21, 2023 by Shagger

[Reality vs Adventure]

18 hours ago, Shagger said:

This DLC has been out now for a couple of days and whilst it has been received well by critics, it is getting review bombed on Metacritic for the DUMBEST reason. And no, it's because the DLC is PS5 only, even though that is both a common and legitimate complaint. Because this is a spoiler, I'm warning you now and will scroll down a bit before saying it, so if you don't want to know, click away now.

 

Spoiler Alert

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

... It's because Aloy acquires a female love interest. Full story from Push Square. Here's a link to the Metacritic Page for Burning Shores if you want to check it out.

Yes, Aloy now has a possible and entirely optional female love interest for the game, and as we've sadly come to expect, here comes the bigots. Why is it in 2023 gamers keep doing this? This is frustrating because we know most gamers aren't like this. Most of us, even amongst those of us that are cisgender male aren't bothered by this sort of thing because we're secure in who are and can't see inclusion as threat. Let's go through the inevitable excuses that will come to justly this one buy one, because we these man-babies have no imagination:

 

1. It's pandering to a gay agenda! There is no social/political agenda, gay people want nothing but to live thier lives in a way that doesn't hurt you. Inclusion is nothing more than a reflection of reality, a realty that most of us aren't threatened by. If you are threatened by that reality that wishes you no harm, then that's on you.
2. They're trying to indoctrinate people into being gay! There is no indoctrination. How the f**k would that even work through a video game? Just because these man-babies are stupid, impressionable and prone to manipulation doesn't make the rest of us as easily sculpted.
3. There're stifling creative freedom in exchange for pandering! Regardless of why LGBTQ+ themes in games, movies, TV shows or whatever are included, that IS thier creators creative freedom. I don't see a game developer's choice to have thier game star Stg-Jack-Awesome-Straight-White-Man-Penis as any less of a free creative choice than choosing to have a game star a character on the spectrum. Aloy didn't need to gay (and if fact, doesn't, like I said the lesbian romance is entirely optional), that's true and that is kind of the point I'm bringing, it's barley even a factor. It's still the same character. The gameplay and story quality of the DLC is not affected by this, so only an obsessive hatred of LGBTQ+ people would bring this kind stuff out of people over something this trivial. The only reason you would get upset over this is if you are a bigot, simple as that and it's pathetic.
4. Aloy was never gay! This next point is just my opinion, but I feel Aloy did show signs of being gay as far back as the very first game. She never took kindly to attention from males, even the good guys like Avad and Errand, and just got along much better with woman. And then there was Petra, she and Aloy basically flited outrageously to almost rom-com level of entertainment. I remember having a discussion with somebody on discord a couple of years back contemplating the possibility that Aloy was gay before the second game came out (No pun intended) based on the way she interacted with people. It sort of ended with a agreement that it was possible, but more importantly "unexplored" area of her character. It could just as easily lead to her being straight, but ultimately a non factor. When the second game came out, the case for Aloy being gay, if anything, strengthened. It was revealed Elisabet Sobeck was in a relationship with a woman, and Aloy is of course genetically identical to her (Another reason one can't be "indoctrinated" into being gay, it's something you're born with).

Whatever though, it doesn't matter, I'm not trying to convince anyone whether Aloy is or isn't gay, just pointing out that it always on the cards. And if you don't believe she is or just don't want to believe she is, than that's fine. However, I feel compelled to help you steer a course away from the path anger on this issue. All you just have to do is follow my two step program;


 

Step 1: Choose one of the options on the right.







Step 2: Grow up.

It's an optional romance in a DLC. In the gamer's own mind if you are straight, then say no. If you want gay romance then say yes. It is the decision of the gamer. Even if it wasn't an option and they made her gay, so what. I could care less anymore because bigots that hate others because of sexual orientation or skin color are declaring themselves also a hater of democracy. So their opinion no longer matters to me. They hate rights. Plain and simple. They can hide behind their God and claim it is against their religion, while doing a million other things against what their religion teaches. They can claim woke while they also think civil rights and elections is woke. They can claim they don't want inclusivity shoved down their throats while they engage in a culture war to shove down everyone else's throats. What a bigot thinks no longer matters. The world is moving on and they can stay in their little discriminatory bubbles for all I care. These people are violent toward gays, they hate others who don't think like them, they take their rights away, so if a bigot cries then wupty doo. Say what you want and everyone else can say what they want. The more you make a big deal of it and victimize others, make laws and criminalize them, take away their right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, only makes them gain even more support. If you have a gay phobia, then it is you who may have gay tendencies you keep trying to hide. And you develop a hate for other gays because they are free and you aren't in your hateful communities. You can't erase gay. People have tried that all throughout history. 

[The Blackangel]

Am I going to want this? I have HFW, but only because it came preinstalled on my PS5. I’ve never actually gotten around to playing it, but that’s just because everyone said to play Zero Dawn first, and I’ve never gotten around to picking up HZD.

[Reality vs Adventure]

2 hours ago, The Blackangel said:

Am I going to want this? I have HFW, but only because it came preinstalled on my PS5. I’ve never actually gotten around to playing it, but that’s just because everyone said to play Zero Dawn first, and I’ve never gotten around to picking up HZD.

HZD is a favorite for those who have played it. I don’t know what lore it is you like, so I can’t tell you to play the game. (What lore do you like?) Psychological horror, same as me. But I say try the first game because it is a gem. I haven’t played the second one.