Vulgarity In Video Games, Especally NPC Prejudice/Bigotry

[The Blackangel]

To put it bluntly, games are getting more vulgar with every generation. The language is harsher, the actions are more violent, and the attitudes are meaner. There's one that comes to mind immediately for me. RDR2. The language used in it is language I never would have expected. For example when Lenny tells Arthur that folks may call him a "Nigger Lover." That's one word I never expected to be in any video game. Then again, the line was performed by a black actor, so what do I know. But later in Chapter 4, Sean makes an interesting statement. He's always ribbing Arthur about being an Englishman. But in a discussion around a campfire one night, he admits that he loves the English, but it's the Scots that he can't stand. Given what little I know about the relationship between Scotland and Ireland, that seems to be pretty common for the time period of the game. There's also the rampant racism that seems to be in most all games nowadays. Even fantasy games like Skyrim. There has never been an easy relationship between Elves and humans from any of the fantasy stories and games I've encountered with the exception of Lord Of The Rings.

Twenty years ago, people would have been tarred and feathered for even bringing up the idea of such tings being prominent or even featured in video games. I honestly have no idea why it's become par for the course these days, unless developers want to make the games more to real life, more challenging, more relatable, or just for the hell of it. I remember when FF8 have Zell cuss several times, people were all but shocked. Granted it was still text on the screen at the time, but was still unexpected. Now any game where a character doesn't cuss is a rarity. Can you imagine a Zelda game where Link goes for his sword and someone throws it at him and says "Here's your fucking sword, now get the hell out." when the game starts?

This is something I've been thinking about for a while now. I look back at the early gaming days where everyone was playing Pac Man, and now gamers are trying to increase their kill count of as many innocent lives as possible. Games like Hatred are just the direction we're going these days. Maybe not as brutal as Hatred, but still.

[killamch89]

Prejudice, Racism, Classism and Murder have always been apart of life so it being reflected in videogames shouldn't be surprising. Let's be honest, no one would like RDR2 or GTA if all the characters were all lovey dovey and singing kumbaya. The story just wouldn't feel authentic or give us something to relate to.

[Shagger]

I agree with @killamch89. Ever since video games stopped being toys like they were before the mid 90's and became an entertainment medium, of course the stories, themes and the way in which those stories were told would become more mature and even aimed specifically at adults at times. That's why the inclusion of, let say, more "sensitive" content doesn't bother me any more in a video game than it does in a TV show or a movie. If that means having character say something or do something that would be considered offensive or inappropriate to get the message across, develop the character or fit into the setting (Especially in a game set in our own past history like RDR2.), then I'm fine with it. Obviously there's a limit to bounds of good taste and whilst opinions on what that limit is can vary greatly, I feel games tend to stay on the right side of it 99% of the time. I acutally feel controversies tend to erupt when people themselves are too sensitive like "Oh no! That character is gay! How dare they have a gay character in my game!" or "A woman on the Battlefield V cover! This will not stand!". Stupid shit, basically.

Edited January 22, 2023 by Shagger

[The Blackangel]

I'm not surprised about the more mature content, as it seems like the majority of gaming is aimed at the adult market. I've been seeing it go that way ever since Conker's Bad Fur Day. Sure there are child oriented games, but what I see all the time is games with mature/adult oriented content. I'm not complaining about it. You all know I love RDR2, and it's one of, if not THE most adult themed game I have ever played. But you also have to remember that I'm a classic gamer and spend more time on my NES, SNES, and N64 than anything. Yeah I play RDR2 a hell of a lot, but nowhere near how much I play the old stuff.

To get back on topic, if someone is a candy ass and just has to find something to bitch about, they will take whatever they can find. I'm sure there's some jackass out there that searches specifically for games that are themed to adults, so they can go on a crusade to try to get it removed from the market. Parents tried to do that with Mortal Kombat. It didn't work then, and I'm sure it won't work now. All they were able to do is soften the graphics on the SNES version.

Games are going to get more and more graphic as time goes on. I would be willing to bet that at some point in the future, the gaming market will end up being strictly aimed at adults.

[Reality vs Adventure]

When it comes to Rockstar, they are known for their blatant satire, especially in games like the GTA series. I remember there is a topic about racism and bigotry in GTA 5 and after playing the game, what I saw was pure funny satire. And of course these things can offend some people and I don't doubt GTA 6 will cut back on the satire due to a political divisive climate. But, a lot of kids play these games and may not be able to distinguish what satire is. That's why games have ratings. I like the edginess in games. This all leads back to what free speech is and how entertainment is entertainment, but when it is no longer satire, not taken out of context, is what it is, blatant vulgar bigotry, then that is where free speech crosses the line into harming the right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness for other people. I think we simply have to ask a black person who has played RDR2 what they think about the phrase used "N.... Lover." The way it is used and the context all under consideration, if it is ok with them, then I wouldn't take it further than that. Just don't ask Kanye...

The world of gaming for sure is recognizing the large adult audience. It would be very strange playing Super Mario Brothers, and they say "hey bitch, where is my mushroom? I gotta date with the princess." That for sure would throw me off. But add that in Saints Row and you will get a kick out of it. 

 

[killamch89]

3 hours ago, Shagger said:

I agree with @killamch89. Ever since video games stopped being toys like they were before the mid 90's and became an entertainment medium, of course the stories, themes and the way in which those stories were told would become more mature and even aimed specifically at adults at times. That's why the inclusion of, let say, more "sensitive" content doesn't bother me any more in a video game than it does in a TV show or a movie. If that means having character say something or do something that would be considered offensive or inappropriate to get the message across, develop the character or fit into the setting (Especially in a game set in our own past history like RDR2.), then I'm fine with it. Obviously there's a limit to bounds of good taste and whilst opinions on what that limit is can vary greatly, I feel games tend to stay on the right side of it 99% of the time. I acutally feel controversies tend to erupt when people themselves are too sensitive like "Oh no! That character is gay! How dare they have a gay character in my game!" or "A woman on the Battlefield V cover! This will not stand!". Stupid shit, basically.

The Woman On the Battlefield Cover is a stupid complaint but I think one of the main things they were complaining about was EA claiming it was an accurate representation of WW2 when it was far from it. Most women never fought in the World War as soldiers but were nurses so it was highly inaccurate. I don't really care about people's sexual preference as long as the story is interesting and makes sense. However, when such an individual is put in the story just for inclusion purposes and not to add anything to the story, then that's where the issues arise.

[Shagger]

On 1/23/2023 at 1:17 AM, killamch89 said:

The Woman On the Battlefield Cover is a stupid complaint but I think one of the main things they were complaining about was EA claiming it was an accurate representation of WW2 when it was far from it. Most women never fought in the World War as soldiers but were nurses so it was highly inaccurate. I don't really care about people's sexual preference as long as the story is interesting and makes sense. However, when such an individual is put in the story just for inclusion purposes and not to add anything to the story, then that's where the issues arise.

 

That "it wasn't realistic" excuse  doesn't work for the backlash for Battlefield V for three reasons;

1. Nobody cared about the story in a Battlefield game for years until a woman appeared on the cover. Just a coincidence, I'm sure, right?
2. Woman did fight in WW2, just not in the American or British forces. Not just video games, but western media in general has some strange issue with telling stories from WW2 that don't involve D-Day or the liberation of France. You can look into the civilian uprisings in occupied France and Poland and especially if you look into the Eastern Front, there are plenty of examples of woman in combat. But instead of taking inspiration from real stories and break that unwritten rule about only talking about post D-Day and the liberation of France, EA and DICE decided instead to make something up. That's the real problem with how EA and DICE handled that. However, nobody, I mean nobody, who complained about a woman being on the cover ever mentioned that, not once, because they're ignorant twats who know fuck all about history. They were just offended by a woman being on the cover, end of. The context didn't matter  and I'm absolutely certain that these idiots would still have had a tantrum about it even if this female soldier was based of a real person or event.
3. If "realism", of lack there of, was the issue, why did they all complain about a woman being involved, but not care at all that many of the characters, including that very woman if I'm remembering it correctly, were using prosthetic limbs that didn't even come close to existing back then? So it's apparently OK to have technology that didn't exist, but a woman in combat is too far.

Face it, that backlash came from pathetic man-babies who feel threatened whenever the protagonist in video game they play is anything other than Stg-Straight-White-Testosterone-Filled-Manly-Man-Penis.

Edited January 24, 2023 by Shagger

[Crazycrab]

1 hour ago, killamch89 said:

The Woman On the Battlefield Cover is a stupid complaint but I think one of the main things they were complaining about was EA claiming it was an accurate representation of WW2 when it was far from it. Most women never fought in the World War as soldiers but were nurses so it was highly inaccurate. I don't really care about people's sexual preference as long as the story is interesting and makes sense. However, when such an individual is put in the story just for inclusion purposes and not to add anything to the story, then that's where the issues arise.

 

 

During WW2 the Soviets had entire Airborne squadrons, Armoured divisions and infantry units full of women.  Including some of the highly decorated units and soldiers in history.  Like the 588th Night Bombers 23 of which earned the highest "Hero of the Soviet Union" decorations.  Then there's Lyudmila Pavlichenko aka "Lady Death", one of the deadliest Snipers in history with 309 confirmed kills.  I remember getting so fucking irritated by the people that complained about woman in Battlefield V.  All of them were:

 

1. Ignoramus morons who didn't know anything about WW2 beyond Saving Private Ryan.
2. Insecure, sexist man-babies that can't stomach anything that not overdosed on testosterone.
3. Both.

 

None of them cared about any of numerous historical inaccuracies with a game franchise that was never about telling history to begin with... until DICE had the apparent nerve to show a a fictional soldier in fictional game with a fictional vagina.  There are times when I feel ashamed to call myself a gamer.

[Empire]

The way I see it, reporting is no solution; muting, especially, is no solution either. Telling people to just "ignore the comments" is like telling them to ignore the problem itself. What we'd need is a cultural change within these gaming communities: Racism, sexism, anti-semitism etc. should no longer be perceived as being acceptable, as being something you just have to put up with if you want to play online games.

But how do we achieve this? To be frank, at the moment, this all seems rather utopistic. Cultural changes always need time – especially within communities which are as diverse as gaming communities, which encompass people from all over the world. In my opinion, however, that shouldn't keep us from trying though.

[Kane99]

If anything I think vulgarity and offensive content is starting to fall away from video games, tv and movies. I think studios are starting to change the language a bit to not offend anyone. RDR2 isn't a good example since it is based on a time where the language was constantly offensive in nature. We still have offensive language today, but I feel like more games and tv/movies are starting to stray away from using that language. Back in the 90s and early 2000s you'd hear homophobic slurs in movies/tv all the time. And it went untouched for a long time, but now days you rarely hear it in anything, unless it's based in the early 2000s,90s or earlier where that language was used a lot in public. Also with RDR2, I don't recall it getting too offensive with its language. I know the N word and other racial slurs are said in the game, but to my knowledge, I don't remember hearing it used too much. I'm sure there was other racial and homophobic slurs tossed in to the mix as well, but I don't recall the dialog saying too much offensive. I'd imagine RDR1 was a bit more offensive and even that I don't recall things getting overly racist. This isn't Django Unchained where the N word is probably tossed around every few minutes. 

And the cool thing with RDR2, is that it shows a posse that is mostly against racism, except for maybe a few of them like Micah, but fuck Micah. 

Media has changed a lot in the past 20 years I'd say. I remember when movies said dumb shit all the time, and now days it's relatively tame in terms of the language they use. 

I think the worry comes more from the gamers who throw around offensive language in multiplayer games. Lets be honest, that's where things get bad. Game lobbies are the same way they were back in the early days of Call of Duty. I remember hearing everything under the sun when I played COD back in the day, and from what I hear, public COD lobbies for example, are much of the same. Constant arguing, racism, homophobia etc. 

I think games are striving to get away from that language for the most part, it's just that gamers are keeping that language alive. I blame it on the gamers for the most part, they're the ones saying most of the hateful things. 

[The Blackangel]

The American armed forces don’t allow women in the infantry. Only men are allowed in it. Women can be part of everything else, but we typically don’t send women into war zones unless they’re nurses of doctors. The entire American military is extremely sexist. I know women who would make far superior infantry than men. But what’s between the legs determines if you’re qualified or not.

I don’t talk much about it, but my grandfather earned 5 bronze stars as a medic, and was part of a unit that liberated Auschwitz. He was a severe hardass, and I was never comfortable around him.

Games that take inspiration from real events, are fine. Expect colorful language and less than favorable opinions of other demographics of people from NPC’s.

I personally think that these kind of things add to a game if it’s done correctly.

[Kane99]

15 hours ago, The Blackangel said:

The American armed forces don’t allow women in the infantry. Only men are allowed in it. Women can be part of everything else, but we typically don’t send women into war zones unless they’re nurses of doctors. The entire American military is extremely sexist. I know women who would make far superior infantry than men. But what’s between the legs determines if you’re qualified or not.

I don’t talk much about it, but my grandfather earned 5 bronze stars as a medic, and was part of a unit that liberated Auschwitz. He was a severe hardass, and I was never comfortable around him.

Games that take inspiration from real events, are fine. Expect colorful language and less than favorable opinions of other demographics of people from NPC’s.

I personally think that these kind of things add to a game if it’s done correctly.

That is no longer true, as of 2015 women now have the right to work any military job they want, including being on the frontlines and in battle. I don't know if women are still having issues with that aspect of the military, but it seems to be going better these days in terms of women getting more options in the military. 

https://time.com/4134976/pentagon-combat-women/

Thanks go out to your grandfather for his service. I can't imagine what it would have been like seeing the horrors of war like that, especially liberating Auschwitz. I can imagine it being scary to be around him after all that. Did he have any PTSD from the war? 

And yeah, the language makes sense for the time. As long as a game/movie doesn't use offensive language excessively to the point that it's overkill, or even unrealistic, then I can totally understand why people would be mad at it. But I think games these days, take the safer approach. The bad guys usually are the ones saying the offensive things for the most part. At least from most games/movies I watch these days. While the good guys you rarely hear bad things come out of their mouth.

[The Blackangel]

1 hour ago, Kane99 said:

That is no longer true, as of 2015 women now have the right to work any military job they want, including being on the frontlines and in battle. I don't know if women are still having issues with that aspect of the military, but it seems to be going better these days in terms of women getting more options in the military.

I was completely unaware that the rules had changed. Back when I was in the marines, I wanted to go infantry but it wasn't open to women. At least we're being allowed to all MOS's now.

1 hour ago, Kane99 said:

Thanks go out to your grandfather for his service. I can't imagine what it would have been like seeing the horrors of war like that, especially liberating Auschwitz. I can imagine it being scary to be around him after all that. Did he have any PTSD from the war?

I don't know exactly how it affected him. All I know is that he talked about it to anyone interested and willing to hear it, and was proud of the job he did. As for otherwise, I don't know if his time in WW2 left him with any PTSD or not. On that side, all I know is that he wasn't someone I wanted to be around if I had the option.

1 hour ago, Kane99 said:

And yeah, the language makes sense for the time. As long as a game/movie doesn't use offensive language excessively to the point that it's overkill, or even unrealistic, then I can totally understand why people would be mad at it. But I think games these days, take the safer approach. The bad guys usually are the ones saying the offensive things for the most part. At least from most games/movies I watch these days. While the good guys you rarely hear bad things come out of their mouth.

The fact that the guy who played Lenny in RDR2 was black softened the reception of the language. Also the time period of the game was a consideration. The woman who played Tilly was also black and she was fine with the language due to the game's story line.

But I agree with you entirely. Foul language is fine in games as long as it isn't overdone. Pushing the lines between PC and reality is fine too, as long as you don't cross that line. Whatever language chosen to put in a game is on the developers. As for us as gamers, we obviously have the option of whether we want to engage in the game or not. I'm sure the language aspect has kept a good amount of gamers from picking up games like GTA and RDR2. There's also a lot of scripted bigotry. I don't play GTA, so that's an assumption on that part. But regardless of what game it is, (Skyrim, GTA, RDR2, CoD, GoW, AC, TLOU, RE, or SMB it's) it just has to be carefully considered so that the language doesn't take away from the gaming experience. This goes for all aspects, including as bigotry and violence.

[Kane99]

3 hours ago, The Blackangel said:

I was completely unaware that the rules had changed. Back when I was in the marines, I wanted to go infantry but it wasn't open to women. At least we're being allowed to all MOS's now.

Surprised it wasn't publicized more. You'd think with it being such a big thing, that it would have graced the news a lot around the time. I don't remember hearing much about it back then. 

3 hours ago, The Blackangel said:

I don't know exactly how it affected him. All I know is that he talked about it to anyone interested and willing to hear it, and was proud of the job he did. As for otherwise, I don't know if his time in WW2 left him with any PTSD or not. On that side, all I know is that he wasn't someone I wanted to be around if I had the option.

He sounds like one of those who probably hid his emotions well. A lot of the soldiers who went to war held their feelings in, or put on a proud face about their time in the war. Especially back then when most men thought it was weak to show emotion. I can't say for sure if your grandpa was suffering, or if he was proud of his service, you can never tell with them. 

3 hours ago, The Blackangel said:

The fact that the guy who played Lenny in RDR2 was black softened the reception of the language. Also the time period of the game was a consideration. The woman who played Tilly was also black and she was fine with the language due to the game's story line.

But I agree with you entirely. Foul language is fine in games as long as it isn't overdone. Pushing the lines between PC and reality is fine too, as long as you don't cross that line. Whatever language chosen to put in a game is on the developers. As for us as gamers, we obviously have the option of whether we want to engage in the game or not. I'm sure the language aspect has kept a good amount of gamers from picking up games like GTA and RDR2. There's also a lot of scripted bigotry. I don't play GTA, so that's an assumption on that part. But regardless of what game it is, (Skyrim, GTA, RDR2, CoD, GoW, AC, TLOU, RE, or SMB it's) it just has to be carefully considered so that the language doesn't take away from the gaming experience. This goes for all aspects, including as bigotry and violence.

We've come a long ways when it comes to inclusion in video games. And with RDR2, I think they tried to paint a more woke crew. I don't like using woke, but it explains how I feel with a lot of the cast of RDR2. They are a posse of many races and religions it seems, and for the most part they seem to be a family, until things blow up of course. 

I think characters like Arthur, are made to write the wrongs of the past. Arthur is a deeply flawed person and has done a lot of bad things, but the game is his journey to becoming a better person. These characters may be corrupt, but it shows that even bad people can be redeemed, especially someone like Arthur, who I'm pretty sure has done some messed up shit in his lifetime. He even states such, but throughout the game you see Arthur change from a bad guy, into someone you can root for. It's kind of the opposite of Breaking Bad. Instead Arthur breaks good haha. 

[Shortie]

Seeing more things like swearing and violence in video games makes more sense nowadays being that video games are not just catered towards the younger generation anymore and children. Whilst many adults still do play games that are for the younger generation you also get adults that want to play something that is more adult like in terms of video games and games like GTA is a perfect example of that. A game like GTA just wouldn't work without the violence and the vulgarity of it all. Developers want to push their games out to not just children but also an older generation of gamers as well.