How do you feel about video games restrictions for minors?

[Kennysplash]

There are games that are rated PG 13, I suppose that is the highest age restriction. But even at that I look at these games objectively and realize that even 15 years should not be playing them. 
Save for few once like racing. But you see GTA and COD and you’ll wonder if they won’t have negative effects and influence on kids that are not matured psychologically. 

What do you think about this restriction?

[Shagger]

On 11/24/2023 at 6:40 AM, Kennysplash said:

There are games that are rated PG 13, I suppose that is the highest age restriction.

 

What are you talking about? There are lots of games rated as being made for adults. In fact, that may even be the biggest market when it comes to traditional console and PC games these days. Here's a list compiled by imdb.com with nearly 300 games on, and trust me when I tell you that is not all of them.

 

Ever since the ratings systems and the various regulatory bodies that enforce them were introduced back in the mid 90's, video games changed. And not just because we started to see stuff like this appear on game boxes;

 

 

It's because video games themselves stopped being mere toys and merchandise and became an entertainment medium, just like movies and TV shows because they started getting regulated in a similar way. I know that these regulatory bodied like the ESRB and PEGI aren't perfect, but they serve a valuable and important purpose. Not only do they help parents, who likely don't know games as well as thier children, make the right choice, they also allow developers the opportunity to make more adult theme games without fear of persecution. Without the rating system, games the The Witcher, GTA, Skyrim, Assassin's Creed and The Last of Us would never have existed

 

Now, all too often we get into a situation whare parents, for one reason or another, fail to respect that video games ARE an entertainment medium and the ratings are there for a reason. So inevitably, they let thier precious little Jimmy play GTA5, to then walk in and find little Jimmy mesmerized with a pair of strippers tits. When that happens, that parent has nobody to blame but themselves. Even so, the so-called "phycological effect" of such games on kids I feel is a bit of a myth. Kids may be impressionable, but they're not stupid nor insane. For anybody, not just a child, to wind up with psychological issues as a result of entertainment media, they would have to have some underlying issue to begin with. 99.9% of people know how to define the difference between fantasy and reality, so at least as many people can play GTA and not start shooting up the streets.

 

Does that mean I think it's OK for parents to let young children play games like GTA or COD? No, I don't, but I would happily accept parents doing so long as they are also willing to take responsibility for it. If people were to stop scapegoating and blaming not just games, but TV, movies and music (Recently, even books haven't been safe) for all the problems in society, we'd be allot further forward in solving those problems.

Edited November 27, 2023 by Shagger

[Dismal_Bliss]

Any responsible parent is going to moderate, limit, restrict, or supervise what games their minor children are playing. A good tool to help parents is the Common Sense Media website. It's a great resource for parents to get an idea about what is in movies, music, and video games, so they can make decisions that will benefit their children.

I prefer to use Common Sense Media over the MPAA ratings for movies. There are some rated PG-13 movies that are worse for children than certain select rated R movies. It's the same for video games. Don't just rely on the rating on the box. Dig deeper.

[Ravenfreak]

Honestly my parents didn't really care what games I played as a kid, of course as long as they weren't rated "Adults Only." I was allowed to play M rated games as a young kid, because my parents could trust that I knew the violence was fake. I played Turok 2 Seeds of Evil at the age of 12, Tomb Raider at the age of 6, etc. I was even allowed to play GTA when I was 14.

[Reality vs Adventure]

I don't think we should be making an assumption that games rated pg13 or any other rated game is bad for that age group. This type of generalization that ratings are not relevant for an age group makes people want to start controlling other people's kids. I believe parental rights gets taken out of context very often. When a generalization is made that something is bad for all, then parental rights get trampled on. Then people want government to start forcing things on others. Parental rights doesn't mean that what is considered bad for their kid is also considered bad for everyone else's kids. Parental rights means that parents have the freedom to decide what is good or bad for their own kids, not someone else's. We need to get rid of that generalization and that mentality of trying to control other parents and their kids. If a parent doesn't like their kids exposed to something, well, they have no right to tell any other parent something who trusts their own children or their own parenting.

 

 

[Dismal_Bliss]

30 minutes ago, Reality vs Adventure said:

Then people want government to start forcing things on others... Parental rights means that parents have the freedom to decide what is good or bad for their own kids, not someone else's.

I get what you are saying. And I agree. There are areas where I am more permissive than most parents, and then there are other areas where I am more restrictive than most parents. My kids, my job. Not yours, nor the governments, lol. Your kids, your problem 😛

[Shortie]

I believe the age rating for games does go higher than 13 with an age rating of 18 being the highest which I believe games such as Call of Duty and GTA are under that rating. 

Some parents do allow their kids to play these games, I have done with my kids when they were quite a bit older but I feel it is the parents responsibility to ensure that they check and understand the games their kids are playing to avoid certain situations and issues. 

[Dismal_Bliss]

16 hours ago, Shortie said:

Some parents do allow their kids to play these games,  I have done with my kids when they were quite a bit older 

Same.

When my daughter was young, like elementary school age, I forbid anything occult, witchcraft, etc, because she was drawn to that. My son on the other hand, was attracted to violence, so we restricted things like Call of Duty, etc. Then when they got into their teens, I was able to loosen up because they were either able to make better decisions now OR they could handle it and separate fantasy from reality. Now one is an adult and the next one will be next year so i don't "police" much of anything anymore.

[Shortie]

On 12/4/2023 at 6:26 AM, Dismal_Bliss said:

Same.

When my daughter was young, like elementary school age, I forbid anything occult, witchcraft, etc, because she was drawn to that. My son on the other hand, was attracted to violence, so we restricted things like Call of Duty, etc. Then when they got into their teens, I was able to loosen up because they were either able to make better decisions now OR they could handle it and separate fantasy from reality. Now one is an adult and the next one will be next year so i don't "police" much of anything anymore.

Two of mine are now adults and I tend to not police what they play now either as I feel at the age they are, they can make the best decision for themselves.

My two youngest, one is going to be 16 in December and the other is turning 15 next year, I still tend to police what they play to an extent but again, not as strict as I was when they were younger. 

[Kennysplash]

On 11/24/2023 at 5:37 PM, Shagger said:

 

What are you talking about? There are lots of games rated as being made for adults. In fact, that may even be the biggest market when it comes to traditional console and PC games these days. Here's a list compiled by imdb.com with nearly 300 games on, and trust me when I tell you that is not all of them.

 

Ever since the ratings systems and the various regulatory bodies that enforce them were introduced back in the mid 90's, video games changed. And not just because we started to see stuff like this appear on game boxes;

 

 

It's because video games themselves stopped being mere toys and merchandise and became an entertainment medium, just like movies and TV shows because they started getting regulated in a similar way. I know that these regulatory bodied like the ESRB and PEGI aren't perfect, but they serve a valuable and important purpose. Not only do they help parents, who likely don't know games as well as thier children, make the right choice, they also allow developers the opportunity to make more adult theme games without fear of persecution. Without the rating system, games the The Witcher, GTA, Skyrim, Assassin's Creed and The Last of Us would never have existed

 

Now, all too often we get into a situation whare parents, for one reason or another, fail to respect that video games ARE an entertainment medium and the ratings are there for a reason. So inevitably, they let thier precious little Jimmy play GTA5, to then walk in and find little Jimmy mesmerized with a pair of strippers tits. When that happens, that parent has nobody to blame but themselves. Even so, the so-called "phycological effect" of such games on kids I feel is a bit of a myth. Kids may be impressionable, but they're not stupid nor insane. For anybody, not just a child, to wind up with psychological issues as a result of entertainment media, they would have to have some underlying issue to begin with. 99.9% of people know how to define the difference between fantasy and reality, so at least as many people can play GTA and not start shooting up the streets.

 

Does that mean I think it's OK for parents to let young children play games like GTA or COD? No, I don't, but I would happily accept parents doing so long as they are also willing to take responsibility for it. If people were to stop scapegoating and blaming not just games, but TV, movies and music (Recently, even books haven't been safe) for all the problems in society, we'd be allot further forward in solving those problems.

You made some valid points. Video games truly gets all the blame, while books and movies pose the same threat. But this still validates my point. We should remember that kids imitate what they see and there is the risk of terming it as normal.
 

Its true that when they become adults they won’t necessarily engage in this activities they play, but I don’t want to start mentioning instances when teenagers do unthinkable and horrible things…which they played as a game. 
In the end, it is all in the hands of parents.

There are reasons the restrictions are there, and it would surely make things better as compared to without. 

[Shagger]

2 hours ago, Kennysplash said:

You made some valid points. Video games truly gets all the blame, while books and movies pose the same threat. But this still validates my point. We should remember that kids imitate what they see and there is the risk of terming it as normal.
 

Its true that when they become adults they won’t necessarily engage in this activities they play, but I don’t want to start mentioning instances when teenagers do unthinkable and horrible things…which they played as a game. 
In the end, it is all in the hands of parents.

There are reasons the restrictions are there, and it would surely make things better as compared to without. 

 

I couldn't agree with you less. In fact, with all due respect, I don't feel that you understand the level of sheer nonsense that post was.

 

Entertainment media, wether it be video games, movies, TV, books or music does NOT pose a threat, that is ridiculous. Scapegoating and the blaming of entertainment media for socital problems, now that IS dangerous because the powers that be who do this sort of thing never address the real issue and causes behind those social issues. They take the easy way out. They don't want to address the real issues because they don't know how to, don't want to because it politically polarising (Gun violence is great example if that. I've actually got a prime example if that coming up in a moment.) or they simply don't want to solve the problem at all. It's lazy propaganda and it's deeply stupid. Scapegoating is such a bad thing that it even costs lives

 

I've talked about this horrifying incident before on VGR, but I feel it's appropriate to bring it up here to help you understand why what you're saying is nonsense.  About 9 1/2 years ago an 8 year accidently shot and killed his Grandmother after playing GTA IV. Can't say I blame the kid, after being asked by Roman to play pool or go bowling for the 800th time, I'd kill the first living thing I find as well. All joking aside, many people tried to blame the game. Well, at least one neighbour had common sense. From the article;

 

Neighbour Johnnie Scott said: "Where did she have the gun? Where did he see the gun, was it in his eyesight? That's the thought that goes through my head."

 

Exactly! Imagine if this situation had exactly the same, expect instead of the boy shooting his grandmother, he had accidentally shot himself. That woman would been beyond ridiculed, criticised even demonised for leaving that gun in a position, locked, loaded and ready to go, where an 8 year old was able to get his hands on it.

 

Whare was the gun lock? Why was is left low down and in plain sight? It even defeats the purpose of owning the gun if it's for self defence. If the kid could get his hands on it so easily, why wouldn't a robber get thier hands on it just as easly?

 

Back to the story. For some reason I doubt the safety catch (assuming the gun even had one) was on when he picked up the gun, otherwise he'd have to know how to disengage it. So l believe found the gun in that condition, just lying out in the open ready to fire. Both morally and legally it's difficult to blame the child and people don't want to blame the grandmother because she died in the incident, so take the easy way out and blame the game. 

 

I'm not going to deny the possibility the game was factor, kids are impressionable (although not as impressionable and certainly not as stupid as I feel you're implying.) as I've admitted already, but it's an M rated/18+ rated game, so why was he playing it in the first place?  People who expose themselves or thier dependants to media that is clearly labled as being potentially inappropriate have to take responceibily for it. It is NOT the responceibily of the people who created that media, simple as that. Like I said in my earlier post, the ratings system is there for a reason and there is no way that could innocent works of fiction as a "threat" and understand that purpose.

 

Now you tell me @Kennysplash, which of the following three options do you think would have had the best chance of success in preventing this incident?

1. GTA IV being banned beforehand or never being allowed to be sold.
2. The parents and/or grandmother not allowing this 8 year old to play a game so clearly ment for adults.
3. Better scrutiny and training for firearms owners on keeping thier guns safe. 

 

I'm going to give you a hint, one of these options wouldn't work, one would definitely work and another wouldn't garuntee success, but is still a sensible course of action. God help you if you can't tell which is which.

 

There's nothing wrong with having moral objections to certain expressions of entertainment media, the best art usually is provocative at least to some extent, but do you understand just how ludicrous it is to call it a "threat"? Who told you that? Who or what are you listening to? Whoever or whatever it is, for your sake I'd highly suggest you stop now.

[Kennysplash]

5 hours ago, Shagger said:

 

I couldn't agree with you less. In fact, with all due respect, I don't feel that you understand the level of sheer nonsense that post was.

 

Entertainment media, wether it be video games, movies, TV, books or music does NOT pose a threat, that is ridiculous. Scapegoating and the blaming of entertainment media for socital problems, now that IS dangerous because the powers that be who do this sort of thing never address the real issue and causes behind those social issues. They take the easy way out. They don't want to address the real issues because they don't know how to, don't want to because it politically polarising (Gun violence is great example if that. I've actually got a prime example if that coming up in a moment.) or they simply don't want to solve the problem at all. It's lazy propaganda and it's deeply stupid. Scapegoating is such a bad thing that it even costs lives

 

I've talked about this horrifying incident before on VGR, but I feel it's appropriate to bring it up here to help you understand why what you're saying is nonsense.  About 9 1/2 years ago an 8 year accidently shot and killed his Grandmother after playing GTA IV. Can't say I blame the kid, after being asked by Roman to play pool or go bowling for the 800th time, I'd kill the first living thing I find as well. All joking aside, many people tried to blame the game. Well, at least one neighbour had common sense. From the article;

 

Neighbour Johnnie Scott said: "Where did she have the gun? Where did he see the gun, was it in his eyesight? That's the thought that goes through my head."

 

Exactly! Imagine if this situation had exactly the same, expect instead of the boy shooting his grandmother, he had accidentally shot himself. That woman would been beyond ridiculed, criticised even demonised for leaving that gun in a position, locked, loaded and ready to go, where an 8 year old was able to get his hands on it.

 

Whare was the gun lock? Why was is left low down and in plain sight? It even defeats the purpose of owning the gun if it's for self defence. If the kid could get his hands on it so easily, why wouldn't a robber get thier hands on it just as easly?

 

Back to the story. For some reason I doubt the safety catch (assuming the gun even had one) was on when he picked up the gun, otherwise he'd have to know how to disengage it. So l believe found the gun in that condition, just lying out in the open ready to fire. Both morally and legally it's difficult to blame the child and people don't want to blame the grandmother because she died in the incident, so take the easy way out and blame the game. 

 

I'm not going to deny the possibility the game was factor, kids are impressionable (although not as impressionable and certainly not as stupid as I feel you're implying.) as I've admitted already, but it's an M rated/18+ rated game, so why was he playing it in the first place?  People who expose themselves or thier dependants to media that is clearly labled as being potentially inappropriate have to take responceibily for it. It is NOT the responceibily of the people who created that media, simple as that. Like I said in my earlier post, the ratings system is there for a reason and there is no way that could innocent works of fiction as a "threat" and understand that purpose.

 

Now you tell me @Kennysplash, which of the following three options do you think would have had the best chance of success in preventing this incident?

1. GTA IV being banned beforehand or never being allowed to be sold.
2. The parents and/or grandmother not allowing this 8 year old to play a game so clearly ment for adults.
3. Better scrutiny and training for firearms owners on keeping thier guns safe. 

 

I'm going to give you a hint, one of these options wouldn't work, one would definitely work and another wouldn't garuntee success, but is still a sensible course of action. God help you if you can't tell which is which.

 

There's nothing wrong with having moral objections to certain expressions of entertainment media, the best art usually is provocative at least to some extent, but do you understand just how ludicrous it is to call it a "threat"? Who told you that? Who or what are you listening to? Whoever or whatever it is, for your sake I'd highly suggest you stop now.

First of all, no offense taken. I even see this an opportunity to have a wider perspective. 
The games are not to blame (nor books, movies). Rather, the easy access to them. 
 

Of the three options:

1. GTA being banned is out of it, doesn’t need further explanation. 

2. The kid is not allowed to play, excellent. But he has such easy access to the firearm? One thing I always say about firearms is that they are self-manualled (permit me to use that word).

If a five year old sees it, he knows where to hold, in few seconds he’ll discern there is a trigger to pull and to point as well. Like you said, if he had used it on himself the grandmother would have a lot of questions to answer. 

3. Right there is the answer. Unless an eight year old could legally get a gun and register it. That incident would never have happened if there was no EASY ACCESS to the firearm. 
 

I don’t blame the game or producers, but the fact that kids engage in them. 
From the experience you gave, we can’t blame the gun. But the easy access to it. 
 

That is why they are kids, they don’t get to decide what to wear, when to sleep, what to play.

A kid that is exposed to entertainment rated above his age; whatever results from it, the entertainment medium is not to blame. 
 

This has been insightful, really. 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Kennysplash

[Shagger]

13 hours ago, Kennysplash said:

First of all, no offense taken. I even see this an opportunity to have a wider perspective. 
The games are not to blame (nor books, movies). Rather, the easy access to them.

 

I still don't think you fully understand this. You're still talking about entertainment media like it's something to protect people from. Like it's dangerous because people WILL do something because it happened in video game or movie.

 

True, this kind of media builds our culture as much as it reflects and represents it, but that's on a very general scale. It's storytelling, not hypnosis. Fantasizing is an advanced, but grounded function of the human mind and humans by default know how to distinct fantasy and reality. For somebody to not understand the difference in action and consequence between fantasy and realty, there would have to be phycological issues present before. It's a mind that is not working properly. An abnormality, not an inevitability. I don't know if you've seen the movie, but check out this line from "Scream" (Fair warning, the clip is from a horror movie, and whilst short, it is violent);

 

 

It my be clichéd, but it's true.

 

Kids are no different. Yes, they're impressionable, but they're not insane. The obviously doesn't mean should expose children should be exposed the media that clearly is meant for adults, but children are not stupid. Have many children have actually tied a bedsheet around thier neck then jumped out of a window because superman did it? I'm actually going guess a very small percentage, so I don't understand why people would assume a kind would shoot up the streets and run people over because they did in GTA. My son was about 6 when he was playing AC4 firing at enemy ships and hunting whales and sharks and he's never went out to sea and started shooting at galleons. Like I said, impressionable, but not insane.

 

And that's what anyone, child or adult would have to be in order to be as easily influenced by entertainment media as you seem to think. Moves, books, TV shows, video games, tabletop fantasy/roleplay games, comics, music and whatever other aspects of entertainment media that I'm not thinking are all harmless. Any and every dark thing and tragedy that they've been blamed for the years happened because the person(s) who engaged with them were;

1. Phycological not right.
2. Took the message way too seriously and way too far.
3. Or, most likely, both.

It is that simple.

It's not like it's anything new either. How many times have somebody done something evil and cited something like this as what was responsible?

 

.

 

14 hours ago, Kennysplash said:

Of the three options:

1. GTA being banned is out of it, doesn’t need further explanation. 

2. The kid is not allowed to play, excellent. But he has such easy access to the firearm? One thing I always say about firearms is that they are self-manualled (permit me to use that word).

If a five year old sees it, he knows where to hold, in few seconds he’ll discern there is a trigger to pull and to point as well. Like you said, if he had used it on himself the grandmother would have a lot of questions to answer. 

3. Right there is the answer. Unless an eight year old could legally get a gun and register it. That incident would never have happened if there was no EASY ACCESS to the firearm. 
 

I don’t blame the game or producers, but the fact that kids engage in them. 
From the experience you gave, we can’t blame the gun. But the easy access to it. 
 

That is why they are kids, they don’t get to decide what to wear, when to sleep, what to play.

A kid that is exposed to entertainment rated above his age; whatever results from it, the entertainment medium is not to blame. 
 

This has been insightful, really. 

 

 

I am so thankfully to see good sense prevail in the rest of you post at least. Yes, you got that right. The bottom line is education not only beasts out paranoia as a solution, but ends paranoia as a problem.

 

Thanks for the input.

[Dismal_Bliss]

You two are basically saying the exact same thing and actually agreeing with each other, lol.

On 11/24/2023 at 1:40 AM, Kennysplash said:

But you see GTA and COD and you’ll wonder if they won’t have negative effects and influence on kids that are not matured psychologically. 

 

On 11/24/2023 at 11:37 AM, Shagger said:

Does that mean I think it's OK for parents to let young children play games like GTA or COD? No, I don't

 

On 12/7/2023 at 3:59 PM, Kennysplash said:

We should remember that kids imitate what they see

 

On 12/7/2023 at 7:00 PM, Shagger said:

I'm not going to deny the possibility the game was factor, kids are impressionable

 

On 12/7/2023 at 3:59 PM, Kennysplash said:

In the end, it is all in the hands of parents.

 

On 11/24/2023 at 11:37 AM, Shagger said:

they help parents... make the right choice

 

On 12/7/2023 at 3:59 PM, Kennysplash said:

There are reasons the restrictions are there

 

On 11/24/2023 at 11:37 AM, Shagger said:

the ratings are there for a reason.

 

[Shagger]

15 minutes ago, Dismal_Bliss said:

You two are basically saying the exact same thing and actually agreeing with each other, lol.

 

And you think that taking small snips of the points we bring up removing them from context is a valuable addition to this discission because?...

 

Look, if you want to take part in this discussion then please do so, just have something to actually contribute first. Even if that contribution is nothing more than a light-hearted roast then I wouldn't mind, but it is genuinely a stretch to call what you posted a joke. It's just... butting in pointlessly.

 

On 12/8/2023 at 12:00 AM, Shagger said:

Can't say I blame the kid, after being asked by Roman to play pool or go bowling for the 800th time, I'd kill the first living thing I find as well.

 

Now, THAT is a joke.