What makes a dungeon fun?

[StaceyPowers]

What makes a dungeon enjoyable and compelling rather than dull and repetitious? I like dungeons with variations in their appearances/layouts as well as those with interesting stories woven through them (i.e. the Vaults in Fallout games).

[The Blackangel]

First off, a good reason to even enter, preferably on an optional basis.

Second, a changing setup instead of sticking to one theme for the entire dungeon.

Third, multiple variations of enemies to face including unique enemies only found in said dungeon.

Fourth, consequences to all choices. Both positive and negative consequences.

Fifth, a justifiable level of difficulty. Not a cruel difficulty level (Zelda ROM-hacks) but not something so easy it could be played in your sleep. Something that easy typically offers no entertainment, as there’s no accomplishment. It’s why there are several of my favorites that I burn out on extremely quickly. I’m too good at them because I’ve played them so damn much.

 

But above all, a good challenge, and a sense of accomplishment afterwards. An item or treasure is always great too.

[Reality vs Adventure]

So much gore and torture you can smell it through the tv. Walk by recently used torture devices with matted insides some of which are still dripping. And that dripping never stops. You can always hear it. Faint voices of screams that are on its last round of echoes. The sound of chains dangling in the silence from an unknown breeze. Hot inferno in one chamber, and cold ghostly chill in another. Bones and limbs laying around as if kicked to the side like garbage, or fallen from a cart of bodies. Growls from creatures that are somewhere, and every turn you anticipate the worst. Cold stone walls and hooks dangling from ceilings. Big roaches and rats scurry. A maze you can't get out, with endless sights of death to see. And that is all just the surface, till you go down another level. You might as well be in hell. Because your soul is now forever changed. Hallucinations has you tormented, making you a raving lunatic. You find yourself naked on the cold bloody floor, weakly crawling as each breath is the last. Mad demons laugh at you all around. The world is spinning. You finally can walk and stumble around delirious. Head spinning. Bodies dangling. Axe chops. Chops. Then you make it to a quiet chamber to collect yourself. And the exit is not a door, but a psychological puzzle you have to solve in order to escape the dungeon. And you then wonder if any of it was real. Flashbacks haunt you. You begin to think you are dead. Turns out you never made it out of the dungeon, and that quiet room was just a teaser. Now you have to run, cause the monsters are there for real. And you run not knowing where you are going, just running through the maze. Hiding, running some more. Then you wake up and it all seems like a dream. Because it is. You are still in the dungeon after getting knocked out. Now you are strapped down. And the torture begins. Non pain torture first. And you have to figure out a way to get yourself free and run again. 

[killamch89]

Honestly,

1. Ridiculously deadly traps ( I mean, a dungeon wouldn't be unexplored if it wasn't extremely dangerous to explore).
2. Zombies/mummies/dead bodies all around.
3. Make it somewhat dark and eerie. (Nobody likes a bright and sunny dungeon unless you looking for the leprechaun).
4. Dangerous monsters that will tear you apart if you even think of going in unprepared.
5. One or two challenging puzzles. (3 at most just don't overdo it).
6. Badass boss monster/s (This is self-explanatory).
7. The one undead character cracking corny jokes about being stuck there for thousands of years and you should run for your life (Maybe it's just me but no dungeon feels complete without that).
8. A rare item or two. (What's the point of going into a spooky dungeon for anything else but the loot).
9. Very little potions/healing items. (This makes you more tactical in your approach because if you run out you'll hardly find any).

[Withywarlock]

For all their faults, Bethesda Game Studios have an incredible dungeon design philosophy in the Fallout games. Here are my observations:

1. Purpose. The dungeon isn't there because it's something for the player to do. It has a reason to exist in the context of the world. Schools, factories, towns and Vaults are all reasonable expectations in that setting, and are reasonably expected to provide the following: essential items (food, water, medicine), utilities (crafting materials), or at the very least shelter from the elements and baddies outdoors. Granted, these places should be picked clean but you can always take the goods from the current occupiers. Not every bandit exists solely to be XP fodder (OK, in the video game sense sure, but in lore, they've all got their reasons. In Fallout, the harsh world creates a harsher people).
   In the Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion mines are differentiated from caves because of their mineral value and the assets within (boarded up walls, pickaxes strewn around) and their more even surfaces.
2. Believable Structure. See above with location; what does a school look like? It's not going to have spike pits and holding cells. Nor is it going to have an abundance of lockers, a cafeteria, a playground and gym. Without these things you might as well have the spike pits and holding cells.
   A dungeon never starts out as a dungeon. Even a labyrinthian cave, a natural structure, can still have some logic for why its occupants reside there - is it warm, is it cool, is it spacious, is it cramped, is it near a viable food source or running water?
3. Resident Evils. Who resides in the dungeon, and more importantly, why? As said above nobody wants to live in a dungeon because it's a dungeon; they won't live there of their own accord unless it provides a boon. Are they criminals on the run, or have they got the perfect place to ambush travellers? Is it the only place its nocturnal occupants can sleep? And if there's numerous types of creature living there, how do they survive? Which is the invasive species?
4. Reward. A reward doesn't have to be material, though it can be for those who want to get something out of delving in dungeons. If it is material I always find a cache at the end of hardships (solving puzzles or besting beasties) to be a satisfying conclusion. As a game programming note, make a note that the player has completed the dungeon at least once, even if the loot can respawn. But some rewards are better than the material. Again, see Fallout and the odd Elder Scrolls cave - nearly all of them have a story via audio logs, diaries, or environmental assets such as bones or locked rooms with gas or water leaking from underneath them. I couldn't tell you of any weapons I've found in any of these dungeons, but I can tell you of the elections you didn't want to win of Vault 11, or the inescapable island where Bravil's debtors end up.

That just about covers the fundamentals of what I think is good dungeon design.

[Peterlight]

3 minutes ago, Withywarlock said:

For all their faults, Bethesda Game Studios have an incredible dungeon design philosophy in the Fallout games. Here are my observations:

1. Purpose. The dungeon isn't there because it's something for the player to do. It has a reason to exist in the context of the world. Schools, factories, towns and Vaults are all reasonable expectations in that setting, and are reasonably expected to provide the following: essential items (food, water, medicine), utilities (crafting materials), or at the very least shelter from the elements and baddies outdoors. Granted, these places should be picked clean but you can always take the goods from the current occupiers. Not every bandit exists solely to be XP fodder (OK, in the video game sense sure, but in lore, they've all got their reasons. In Fallout, the harsh world creates a harsher people).
   In the Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion mines are differentiated from caves because of their mineral value and the assets within (boarded up walls, pickaxes strewn around) and their more even surfaces.
2. Believable Structure. See above with location; what does a school look like? It's not going to have spike pits and holding cells. Nor is it going to have an abundance of lockers, a cafeteria, a playground and gym. Without these things you might as well have the spike pits and holding cells.
   A dungeon never starts out as a dungeon. Even a labyrinthian cave, a natural structure, can still have some logic for why its occupants reside there - is it warm, is it cool, is it spacious, is it cramped, is it near a viable food source or running water?
3. Resident Evils. Who resides in the dungeon, and more importantly, why? As said above nobody wants to live in a dungeon because it's a dungeon; they won't live there of their own accord unless it provides a boon. Are they criminals on the run, or have they got the perfect place to ambush travellers? Is it the only place its nocturnal occupants can sleep? And if there's numerous types of creature living there, how do they survive? Which is the invasive species?
4. Reward. A reward doesn't have to be material, though it can be for those who want to get something out of delving in dungeons. If it is material I always find a cache at the end of hardships (solving puzzles or besting beasties) to be a satisfying conclusion. As a game programming note, make a note that the player has completed the dungeon at least once, even if the loot can respawn. But some rewards are better than the material. Again, see Fallout and the odd Elder Scrolls cave - nearly all of them have a story via audio logs, diaries, or environmental assets such as bones or locked rooms with gas or water leaking from underneath them. I couldn't tell you of any weapons I've found in any of these dungeons, but I can tell you of the elections you didn't want to win of Vault 11, or the inescapable island where Bravil's debtors end up.

That just about covers the fundamentals of what I think is good dungeon design.

Really nice list,I kind of like this design, I like the idea of the resident evil. Dope

[The Blackangel]

6 hours ago, Reality vs Adventure said:

So much gore and torture you can smell it through the tv. Walk by recently used torture devices with matted insides some of which are still dripping. And that dripping never stops. You can always hear it. Faint voices of screams that are on its last round of echoes. The sound of chains dangling in the silence from an unknown breeze. Hot inferno in one chamber, and cold ghostly chill in another. Bones and limbs laying around as if kicked to the side like garbage, or fallen from a cart of bodies. Growls from creatures that are somewhere, and every turn you anticipate the worst. Cold stone walls and hooks dangling from ceilings. Big roaches and rats scurry. A maze you can't get out, with endless sights of death to see. And that is all just the surface, till you go down another level. You might as well be in hell. Because your soul is now forever changed. Hallucinations has you tormented, making you a raving lunatic. You find yourself naked on the cold bloody floor, weakly crawling as each breath is the last. Mad demons laugh at you all around. The world is spinning. You finally can walk and stumble around delirious. Head spinning. Bodies dangling. Axe chops. Chops. Then you make it to a quiet chamber to collect yourself. And the exit is not a door, but a psychological puzzle you have to solve in order to escape the dungeon. And you then wonder if any of it was real. Flashbacks haunt you. You begin to think you are dead. Turns out you never made it out of the dungeon, and that quiet room was just a teaser. Now you have to run, cause the monsters are there for real. And you run not knowing where you are going, just running through the maze. Hiding, running some more. Then you wake up and it all seems like a dream. Because it is. You are still in the dungeon after getting knocked out. Now you are strapped down. And the torture begins. Non pain torture first. And you have to figure out a way to get yourself free and run again. 

I experienced that very same thing, almost word for word. It was one of the worst trips I ever had and the only time I ever did heroin. The trip completely freaked me out, and I stayed with just about everything and anything else. I still have flashbacks 20 years later. Staying clean is not easy.

[Reality vs Adventure]

6 hours ago, The Blackangel said:

I experienced that very same thing, almost word for word. It was one of the worst trips I ever had and the only time I ever did heroin. The trip completely freaked me out, and I stayed with just about everything and anything else. I still have flashbacks 20 years later. Staying clean is not easy.

It's never easy. And people always assume that another always has that choice of what they put in their body, in a way it's true, but that's before even acknowledging that a person didn't have the choice of things that happened to them in the first place that inevitably drove their psyche to substance abuse. 

Walk through this dungeon with me. Take my hand. And if I fall, sever it and lead on. Don't look back. You will never get that image out of your head when the demons shock my soul in everlasting torture; crying in pain without a sound. Just keep walking. 

That's how I see a dungeon. It's more of a mental state of torture with added monsters. No paddy cake in the park. It's got to leave a scar on you. 

[StaceyPowers]

On 12/31/2020 at 9:41 PM, Reality vs Adventure said:

And you have to figure out a way to get yourself free and run again.

This whole response is so above and beyond, and sort of a delicious treat. Thank you.

On 12/31/2020 at 11:06 PM, killamch89 said:

Make it somewhat dark and eerie. (Nobody likes a bright and sunny dungeon unless you looking for the leprechaun)

Ironically, there was a bright, sunny dungeon I saw in Skyrim once that I cannot for the life of me identify or locate again, and it's been driving me crazy for years.

On 1/1/2021 at 1:52 AM, Withywarlock said:

Again, see Fallout and the odd Elder Scrolls cave - nearly all of them have a story via audio logs, diaries, or environmental assets such as bones or locked rooms with gas or water leaking from underneath them.

THIS. The stories woven into the Fallout vaults are awesome.

[Heatman]

On 1/1/2021 at 1:32 AM, The Blackangel said:

 

But above all, a good challenge, and a sense of accomplishment afterwards. An item or treasure is always great too.

This basically sums it up for me when it comes to what makes getting into it in the first place. If there is no sense of accomplishment and good reward for the time spent on the Dungeon, then I'm not playing.