RANT: Do you have friends that get WAY too upset about the difficulty they're having with a game?

[Steerminator]

So I'm basically venting my frustration here because I have nobody to really talk to about it in real life.  I always say that I don't really have any friends, but I actually do have one, but one who I can only tolerate in small doses.  The thing is, she has major anxiety problems (a thing she can't be faulted for), and I guess this carries over into the video game playing experience.  The thing is, I've dealt with people of this sort before, who get SO angry when bad things happen (i.e. they die a lot) in a video game and instead of acknowledging that maybe they just need more practice, they start complaining that the game is badly designed, is bad, unfair, too hard, or some other variation/combination of these things.  Or even instead of acknowledging anything at all, just remaining calm and not getting very visibly and audibly frustrated in my presence.  It really makes me extremely uncomfortable, and takes all the fun out of playing a game together for me.  I mean, the whole point of a game is to have fun, but with this kind of person, when they get like that, no matter how much you tell them to calm down and just relax and don't worry about how well you're performing, they just can't do it; they must continually yell at the game and complain about why its unfair and how "this shouldn't be this way" or "that shouldn't be that way" and inevitably, "I can't play this game anymore."  *sigh*

She's a huge Zelda fan, and she was having one of her fits while we were playing this other game, when she started talking about how this reminded her of the problem she had with Zelda a Link to the Past; that its way too hard because enemies knock you like halfway across the screen when they hit you and you fall and die (her words, not mine).  I tried to say that its only seems very difficult because she's not used to that style of game, (because she really isn't.  She grew up on Gamecube and stuff after that, and has very little experience playing 2D games), but she -insists- that its a design flaw and a problem with the game, to which I could only try to hide my frustration.  All I could really say was that "there's nothing wrong with the game, you're just not good enough."  Admittedly not the best choice of words, but if I had said, "there's nothing wrong with the game, you just need more practice is all." (which is what I really should have said), it would have basically conveyed the same message.  Anyway, I guess that's the end of my rant.  Sorry for subjecting you all to this.

[Withywarlock]

22 minutes ago, Steerminator said:

Sorry for subjecting you all to this.

No need to apologise. We all knew what we were getting into by clicking the title.

I think you're both right, in that one man's treasured mechanic is another's flaw. Whenever I see something I don't like in a game I ponder why it exists in the first place. The surface-level answer is that it's quite simply not for me, and it's an answer I come back to later on. But then I try to put myself into the shoes of the developer, and finally those of the person the game is for, and what joy they'd get out of it.

I haven't played The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past, so I'm unfamiliar with the artistic merit of such knockback. If it can be countered by blocking (I'm familiar enough with Zelda to know that Link is sometimes equipped with a shield of sorts), 'kiting' foes or using ranged weaponry, that would be the answer and I'd accept that I might not like it, but I can appreciate there is a way to deal with it. However, if the block doesn't function well, kiting enemies isn't a viable strategy or ranged weapons are too weak/scarce to use such strategies, then I'd have to continue to reflect on the developers' circumstances that led to their decision - budget, time, and so forth.

All of this is coming from a mind that's been reviewing video games for 10 years, and as such has built up habits that fundamentally change how I view a game even if I just play to enjoy it for its own sake. Therefore I can hardly blame your friend if they haven't spent that sort of time looking at a game the way I have. For some people evidently such as yourself, accepting losses and different mechanical tastes comes naturally. Even with that irritatingly robotic lens I'm prone to getting frustrated and having fits of rage. It's a good job I play games solitaire otherwise I'd look no better than your average Metacritic user score-giver. Blessed be the editors, for they shall be called the children of God.

Ahem. That doesn't mean you should be subject to abuse or indeed a rough time. It's true what you say: video games should be fun, and we have tons of resources out there that can tell us if a game will be fun for each of us. A Link to the Past has been around for a very long time, and with that comes a lot of resources that could tell your friend if it were fun. The knockback, whether it is a flaw or not, should be evident before purchase (assuming your friend bought the game and isn't emulating it). In any case, they should avoid playing games that frustrate them. Your friend must accept that such a feature is a big part of the game and if there's no willingness to adapt, there's going to be no enjoyment at the end. It's something I've known for donkeys' years, but I truly learnt with God of War (2018). The sooner they learn, the sooner they can begin to enjoy other games. ^^

[m76]

I get upset with games myself. But it's not about the difficulty. There are multiple games I play on the hardest difficulty and enjoy them even if I fail a lot.

It's when I feel the game plays dirty. As in I fail but I don't think I deserve to fail. 

I get extremely angry for example when multiple high probability shots miss consecutively in xcom2.

[Steerminator]

1 hour ago, Withywarlock said:

I think you're both right, in that one man's treasured mechanic is another's flaw.

I mean, I get that everyone has different tastes.  Maybe I get too hung up on semantics, but..... It would be one thing if a person said, "I don't like the way this is designed.  I would enjoy it better if it were designed in -this- way instead."  That, to me, would be a totally subjective statement to make and is purely expressing an opinion on one's personal tastes, which is fine. 

I think it is quite another thing, though, for a person to call something "a design flaw" or say that "it shouldn't be this way."  To me this is not subjective anymore; while it is still an opinion, it is expressing the view that there is something objectively wrong, and I take issue with that if I don't agree with it (which in this case, I don't).  And I feel like most people who have played A Link to the Past wouldn't agree with this either.

[Steerminator]

I think this is a reasonable perspective.  I almost never get angry at video games.  I almost never get angry at all, to be honest (frustrated or upset sure, but not angry).  But it sounds like you're talking about, what we might call.... bad physics, or something like that.  Like, you have a sword, but even if any part of the whole second half of your sword touches an enemy, the game won't register it as a hit, unless its even closer to the hilt (if that makes sense).  Or a bullet clearly flying through your head but not hitting you.  These kinds of things are what I would call objective flaws in a game.

[Patrik]

There are certain games that aren't necessarly needed to play on highest possible difficulty, puzzle games to be specific, because at the end, i will have to check youtube for a solution, something like battlefield or call of duty in hard mode would be more fun, since it will push me to play smart and not rush like a fool.

[Kane99]

Instead of tough games, or games where you die a lot, maybe find a game you two can play that doesn't requite much thought or doesn't require too much work to get through. I think the game Journey on the PS4 I think it is, would be a good option to play. I never played it, but I hear it's quite soothing to play. 

There, try to find games you think could relax her. 

[killamch89]

It depends on the game honestly. I know in EA sport games they have scripts that kick in when the AI wants you to lose and try as you might, you'll get cheated out of a win. That kind of difficulty is absolute garbage and is one of the main reasons I stopped playing their sport titles.

[Steerminator]

16 hours ago, Kane99 said:

Instead of tough games, or games where you die a lot, maybe find a game you two can play that doesn't requite much thought or doesn't require too much work to get through. I think the game Journey on the PS4 I think it is, would be a good option to play. I never played it, but I hear it's quite soothing to play. 

There, try to find games you think could relax her. 

Yeah, we don't even play games together that much anymore because of this.  I always pick out games that are not very difficult; she's just generally unskilled at video games, with a low tolerance for (her own) failure.  If we do play something together, its usually something VERY easy.  But sometimes I overestimate her ability to do certain things, and, well.... situations like this come up.

[The Blackangel]

I have to ask, what enemy knocks you across the screen? The only one I can think of is Moldorm in the Tower Of Hera. But that's a boss fight.

As for difficulty, some games are specifically designed to push a player to their limits. And some are designed to be at a difficulty level that isn't a challenge, but instead flat out cruel. For that I'm talking about a ROM-hack. It's one of the Zelda games on SNES. Goddess Of Wisdom is so far beyond hard, I can only get on it once or twice a year at most, because it's vomit inducing. I fully believe that the guys that created it never intended for it to be beaten. It's that damn hard. I haven't tried Parallel Worlds or Ancient Stone Tablets yet, and from what I read, Parallel Worlds is the hardest of all three.

One game that made me rage quit so much that I refuse to play it anymore is DKC on SNES. I have actually beaten the first two, but never even played the third despite having it in my library. And I have no intention of playing any of them ever again, simply because of how pissed off I get.

So I avoid games that I know are going to piss me off, and stick to others that are either new and a learning experience, or the ones that I know and have always enjoyed playing. I mean how many people know about the secret room by the castle in Zelda A Link To The Past?

[Syntax]

I do, for example I have a friend who is struggling to get through Horizon Zero Dawn on normal/hard, but I've been playing on the game (fresh game, not New+) on Ultra Hard since I've had it lol

[Steerminator]

12 hours ago, The Blackangel said:

I have to ask, what enemy knocks you across the screen? The only one I can think of is Moldorm in the Tower Of Hera. But that's a boss fight.

As for difficulty, some games are specifically designed to push a player to their limits. And some are designed to be at a difficulty level that isn't a challenge, but instead flat out cruel. For that I'm talking about a ROM-hack. It's one of the Zelda games on SNES. Goddess Of Wisdom is so far beyond hard, I can only get on it once or twice a year at most, because it's vomit inducing. I fully believe that the guys that created it never intended for it to be beaten. It's that damn hard. I haven't tried Parallel Worlds or Ancient Stone Tablets yet, and from what I read, Parallel Worlds is the hardest of all three.

One game that made me rage quit so much that I refuse to play it anymore is DKC on SNES. I have actually beaten the first two, but never even played the third despite having it in my library. And I have no intention of playing any of them ever again, simply because of how pissed off I get.

So I avoid games that I know are going to piss me off, and stick to others that are either new and a learning experience, or the ones that I know and have always enjoyed playing. I mean how many people know about the secret room by the castle in Zelda A Link To The Past?

hahaha... She was just referring to the way you get pushed back in general when you get hit.  She felt you got pushed back way too far, and apparently had a problem getting knocked into holes throughout the game.  I would also guess that getting knocked around too much probably made her get nervous and generally lose focus and control (if that makes sense).  That, at least, is something I can understand conceptually.  Like when things start happening so fast you can't keep up and you don't have enough time to think about your actions.  I think this happens to me sometimes when I'm playing fighting games, against people who are very good at them (because I'm not very good at them.  I still enjoy it, though).

I've never played any of those rom hack games though.  They always seem kind of cheap to me (as in, not particularly well made).  I do love a good challenge, though.

[StaceyPowers]

@Steerminator OMG, THIS.

Yes, the person who I watch play most often has this same issue. I think anxiety in general often boils down in part to poor self-esteem, so that is a factor here. And you end up with either 1-the person beating themselves up for being bad (when they are often actually just learning and are doing fine), or 2-the person blames the game, because the only way they have learned to feel OK about themselves is to outsource blame and perceive something else as Not OK.

[StaceyPowers]

@Steerminator Out of curiosity, does your friend also react this way to people when she is frustrated with them? I.e. they go from being okay in her eyes one second to being totally wrong and awful the next?

[Heatman]

Well, I simply believe that everyone is entitled to his or her own personal opinion and I don't owe anything to the person. So, when they get upset about such, it's definitely their sole business.