Honor according to whom?

[The Blackangel]

There are some intriguing game designs out there. Some where the protagonist is also an antagonist. GTA and RDR2 come to mind. I can't comment too much on GTA as I don't follow the series due to it not being my style of gaming. But in RDR2, you play as Arthur. He is the main protagonist of the story. But he's also an outlaw. A murderer and thief. You have an honor rating in the game, as shown in the pic below.

 

Now this YouTuber doesn't have a good honor rating, but that's another discussion for another time. But if you look at it, it goes from red to white. Red being low, and white being high. For reference, in the pic below, the arrow pointing down shows roughly where my current honor rating is in the game I'm currently running.

 

But the point of this thread is not to brag. It's to ask a very simple question. In these kind of games, who decides the honor? The gamer or the game? For some of you out there, the most honorable thing may be to rob and kill every last person you come across. To others it may be to help every last person you can. If it's the game, then it's a kind of irrelevant point, as an honor rating wouldn't mean much. Arthur is a wanted man. If he goes to Blackwater he is killed on the spot as he is wanted dead or alive. And you can get bounties on your head in the open world your roaming in the game. The Pinkertons are always after you. you have enemy gangs that you can kill as many as you want, and it doesn't hurt your in game honor rating.

But is any of that honorable? When there is no threat, is killing to survive honorable? I don't have to kill anyone, including enemy gangs. I didn't have to steal that horse. I didn't have to loot and rob that house.

Did I enjoy it? Yeah, I did. It helps support my gang of outlaws. but was it honorable, to steal from someone else, to feed the mouths of the people I run with.

Dutch, Arthur, Hosea, Lenny, Bill, Pearson, John, Jack, Abigail, Karen, Tilly, Grimshaw, Mary-Beth, Strauss, Molly, Kieran, Javier, Charles, Uncle, Reverend, Sean, Sadie, occasionally Trelawny, and even that piece of shit Micah.

24 people. Sure I can go hunting instead, but hunting doesn't buy the ammo to hunt, or the tools needed to cook. Hunting doesn't buy the horses food. It doesn't buy the medecine needed in camp, or the items needed to repair things when they break. That all takes money. And unless deer start shitting quarters, it also means that robbing and stealing are necessary, as no one in the gang can get a legitimate job due to the bounties on their heads and them all being wanted.

 

So is that honor? And who decided if it was or was not honorable? The game, or the gamer?

Edited February 15, 2021 by The Blackangel

[Reality vs Adventure]

 

The game is based on an era where the life of outlaws is changing. And you are right, it’s not like they can go get a legitimate job anymore.

Their honor system is based on a system of outlaws, not society. So killing another outlaw shouldn't affect their honor. Stealing shouldn't affect their honor as long as they don’t kill an innocent for it. Although, my honor has dropped stealing from a dead body that was accidentally kicked by a horse! I’m not sure if the honor is affected in the game if you protect yourself from the law hunting you.

It wouldn’t make sense to be a murderer then become an outlaw with an honorable code. That’s murder as in killing the innocent. So at that point with blood on your hands, any honorable code is washed away. The only code to follow now would be the survival code. Take care of your own and screw anyone else. But the game is called Redemption! So are they trying to redeem themselves? Is it possible? In RDR1 were they murderers of the innocent? If that were the case, the only real redemption would be to turn yourself in. But you can't keep hiding as a redeemed outlaw. 

To be a killer that killed other killers instead of the innocent, then we could talk honor. But now the honor system is within the gang. The player can choose to live as a broken outlaw who refuses to conform and just wants money no matter what. Or a player can try and help others out or be a bounty hunter themselves. And that’s funny to think about how Arthur gets bounties to help sheriffs, at the same time gets bounty hunted. So are bounty hunters any better themselves?  Or are they just an outlaw themselves looking for pay?

Personally, I found it annoying being chased by bounty hunters, so I would rather just play the good role. At least, good for an outlaw. It sure is fun robbing a train though. But you just can’t do it without killing so many.

But I guess the honor code in the game could be debated from different players. Any type of person plays video games. So there could be a genuine bad person playing RDR2 who would disagree with the game’s honor system and think ‘since I’m an outlaw, I can kill anybody anytime. Who cares?’ The game let’s you play that character, but what is the greatest reward? Killing and stealing to get rich? Or aiding in bounties and getting discounts at stores with a good standing?

Unless you can defeat anyone and everyone at anytime, it will get old constantly being hunted when you actually want to explore something. So even that bad man playing the game will eventually start to do good just so they can actually play the game. That’s the main consequence.

[The Blackangel]

It becomes a pain in the ass, not to mention expensive, to constantly have to pay off your bounties. Even a $5 bounty will get them up your ass like a tapeworm. Dead or alive bounties present the real problem, however. Typically you can’t pay them off, like in Blackwater. Granted, with a relatively low bounty you have the option of turning yourself in and serving a short time in jail. I’ve never gone that route, but I may the next time I get a bounty.

[Heatman]

On 2/16/2021 at 11:36 PM, The Blackangel said:

It becomes a pain in the ass, not to mention expensive, to constantly have to pay off your bounties. Even a $5 bounty will get them up your ass like a tapeworm. Dead or alive bounties present the real problem, however. Typically you can’t pay them off, like in Blackwater. Granted, with a relatively low bounty you have the option of turning yourself in and serving a short time in jail. I’ve never gone that route, but I may the next time I get a bounty.

Seriously, I really hate dead or alive bounties because it's definitely going to make everything very difficult for you to survive. 

[Shole]

Def the gamer. If you think the gaming rules are dumb you decide what to do. It's the same as in real life, sometimes the action that is moral by society standards might be immoral for you.

[Heatman]

34 minutes ago, Shole said:

Def the gamer. If you think the gaming rules are dumb you decide what to do. It's the same as in real life, sometimes the action that is moral by society standards might be immoral for you.

Nothing is ever as it seems in most cases unless you are within the space of where it goes to really understand what's going on.